Ataxia & Vomiting Help

Hey bud! That's pretty damn cool!  LA PURGA - purging is very important and always a healing experience many people consider it a skill...for real. I like this thread...

Ya Mon, I'm going for my PhD in emetology! Seems I forgot "woofing his/her/your/my cookies" and "blowing chow."  I would also like to propose what might be a new one:  "gargling your lunch/dinner/cookies/chow."  I'm trying to stop myself now, I do believe that I have gone far enough with this.  However, if you have a favorite one that I missed, please share! I shall attempt to be totally serious for a while.  One of my intentions in starting this post is investigating the mechanics of digestion with respect to the consumption of possibly nauseating alkaloids.  Why is it that all of the, IMHO, really good plant teachers are associated with emesis, e.g. iboga, peyote and ayahuasca? If it is one's objective to orally consume a substance and have the active compounds reach the blood stream, three basic things are necessary:  1)  Keep it 'down' long enough,  2)  It must pass from the stomach into the intestines, and  3)  It must be absorbed through the intestines.  If the substance does not pass from the stomach to the intestines, it is not going to be absorbed. Research in Russia revealed that long-term, heavy vodka drinkers acquired the ability to close their pyloric valves (a typically autonomous function) and retain excessive amounts of vodka in their stomachs preventing extreme intoxication. Just so, plant substances, particularly bulky ones such as root bark or fresh cactus, can be 'waylaid' in the stomach.  This applies somewhat to extracts and less so to purified alkaloid salts.  The longer a substance is waylaid in the stomach, the higher the chances of regurgitation and the longer for effects to be felt.  If, like me, you have wondered why something that worked in 30 minutes last week is taking over an hour this week, this could be the reason. When we are nervous or frightened, our bodies autonomically (and automatically) reduce the blood flow to our digestive system, slowing things down.  It is my belief that this is one reason why nervous, frightened people often blow chow  --  that bitter stuff sits in their stomach until it rebels. I have found that walking around or just standing up and stretching/rotating helps to get things like peyote and ayahuasca moving.  Due to the ataxia caused by iboga, however, walking around will probably just make things worse at some point.  I have read that even rapid movement of the head causes dizziness and nausea with flood-type doses of iboga. A couple other techniques I have used with some success are body position and massage.  For the substance to travel from the stomach, through the duodenum and into the small intestines, it helps if the passage is wide and straight as possible.  Slouching or bending over acutely at the waist makes passage physically more slow and difficult.  Sitting back or laying down with the chest and abdomen 'open' creates a more efficient passageway.  It also allows the motion of the diaphragm to move things when you breathe. Putting both hands horizontal just below the collar bone (ladies, you'll have to figure this out on your own) with finger tips in the center, and then slowly, with firm pressure, sliding them down to the pelvic area will help to massage the contents of the GI tract downward.  This can be done while standing, sitting or lying down.  It's sort of like flattening a tube of toothpaste to get that last bit out.  This has worked for me when some ayahuasca has been sitting down there and is refusing to move.  Be sure that the abdominal wall is relaxed/pliable and not rigid.  Six or twelve 'passes' should be enough, if done properly. I think that's enough for now.  If you have a comment or question, please don't hesitate to bring it up! May the iboga reach your head before your stomach knows it's there!     ~et

Godspeed Iboga !  - hp

Still wobbly and a lil scatterbrained from an experience Tuesday (look for a post in Iboga Journals forthcoming) but i wanted to respond to this idea of the purge. Until this last experience i'd had little idea of what it REALLY meant and the how's and why's...it is an interactive process to be sure. until recently i'd 'puked, gaffed, irked'...on many things, but it was always just THAT...vomiting with little regard for the whole of the experience. It was something to be endured, but now I realize it is absolutely participatory...it is WORK. Important work at that, and is usually learned over time and with practice. it was the highlight of the experience if you can believe that. I learned a great deal...I promise to share more as soon as I'm a bit more grounded. I love you guys...

I beg to differ on Iboga making you puke cos it effects the stomach' You puke on Iboga because Ibogaine initialy effects reuptake of dopamine and seretonin in the brain' flooding the brain with both triptamines' I see it as a fail safe mechanism for the brain' it has had enough' It also binds to K and mu receptors' You smoke heroin' eventualy you puke up' there is no thing in your stomach' you puke cos you got too much dopamine in the brain and heavy binding to opiate receptors' Bliss! Nobu +

Maybe also you puke to purge spiritually-psychically-emotionally. Maybe you puke because you see or know some thing which must be thrown up or thrown out. The body,mind,spirit are so intrinsically intertwined. To reduce to a series of chemical reactions seems to be leaving out something. There is room for knowledge on all these fronts, methinks.

Maybe you missed the trajectory of my multi-hued projectile.  I wanna get back to basics.  I wanna share my interminable hours, never expecting to see another dawn, with spasms demanding puke already coverering the floor about me...   Ode To Puke (With apologies to Mr Poe) As I kneel, head bowed, puking, as I choke and snort my sputum croaking, coughing, retching, groaning, on the bathroom floor, I think, though brain is dizzy, things I've never thought before Things I've missed, though often spewing, or somehow managed to ignore While I lie bedraggled, on the stinking cold hard floor. Now with head a-throbbing, o'er the great white bowl I'm bobbing, Bobbing, throbbing, weaving, chucking, surely there can be no more? No more vomit I lay praying, Jesus! save me now, and seal my maw And send a team of maidens to mop this stinking cold hard floor And if you do, I promise, on my honour, Nevermore! But lo! my gut's ill-fated, and my heaves are unabated, And now my thoughts turn back to whence they were before, As I'm squirming, smacking, flopping, like a spastic being ignored. And no maidens do I hear, not one wet-wipe does appear, Nought but dread convulsions on the stinking cold hard floor. Tis curious, I wonder, as I purge more sauce-filled chunder, How the saucy slick of chunder, appears, oh what a wonder! As a likeness of myself such as I've never seen before As a likeness of myself, writhing on the cold hard floor And the likeness set me thinking, how my doping, not my drinking, could result in such a stinking, stinking on the cold hard floor. And two things I did conclude, "Thank you, torrid interlude!" And thank you Gods, all praise to you, for there's truth in floating spew. "... and my heaves are unabated"  --  Oh the poetry, the pathos! But, aside from the artistry of the verse lies a message for the ages:  "I puke, you puke, we puke, everybody pukes!" Get on your knees and puke like a man! Poe itry found @ http://www.top20fun.com/funny_jokes/3367.html

Eon is a lovable, vehement freak. Freak on, freakdaddy.

I a freak she a freak he a freak they a freak you a freak we a freak be a freak see a freak freak a freak?

You know, I am great fan Poe...and I must tell you how absolutely impressive that is. I'm stealing it, making it mine,  That's high art brother.

Greetings All! I am planning on using another light-weight dose of TA today, something I will be able to manage safely without a sitter.  The reason why I am posting in this thread is that after the after the lucid dreaming/visionary part has passed, I will have plenty of time to study and experiment with ataxia.  It is my understanding from reading numerous accounts, that there are probably two basic causes for vomiting during an iboga experience:  1)  Having to chew and swallow a large quantity (a flood dose) of root bark, and 2) ataxia. Since I have zero experience chewing root bark, I am hoping that someone else can fill us all in on that.  However, I expect that I am nearing the expert level on the subject of 'Practical Ataxic Motion'.  While I have only experienced what I consider to be mild iboga ataxia once as the result of a mini-dose (~500mg), I have experienced harmaline ataxia many times.  The ataxia from iboga and harmaline are very similar.  Harmaline is used to investigate ataxia in the lab. After experimenting with several of the harmala alkaloids (harmaline, harmine, harmane, harmalol), I settled on harmaline as an MAOI for use in 'pharmahuasca' because it was the most 'trippy' of the lot.  (Recent experimentation has led me to a new understanding of the harmalas and a preference for a harmine and THH combination in pharmahuasca preparations, BTW)  I began my investigation of ayahuasca back in the early 80s before the term 'pharmahuasca' had been coined with some 15g of 98% harmaline and a substantial chunk of synthetic DMT. I recall having to crawl on hands and knees to the bathroom several times on large-ish doses.  Ah, those were the daze... Since I was a regular and enthusiastic user of the harmaline & DMT combo, I began to learn techniques for getting to the bathroom or kitchen without crawling.  I am hoping that what I learned will help fellow ibonauts to keep it down where it belongs, instead of all over the floor or in a bucket.  More importantly, I hope to contribute to safety. Ataxia 101, The Basics: Make sure the lights are on.  Ataxic walking is tough enough but is nigh on to impossible in the dark.Plan out you route and make sure that there are no obstacles in the way that you will have to step over.  If possible, plan to walk next to a wall or something very sturdy without leaning over.  This is not something you want to do with fine china, crystal or antique Ming vases anywhere nearby.  The same goes for sharp pointy things.  An empty padded cell would be ideal!Prepare to stand up in stages.  Go from lying or reclining to sitting up.  Sit up for a while without support until you stabilize.  Move your head rapidly from all the way one side to the other and back; note what happens.  This will usually bring about a sense of dizziness and/or cause flashing colors.Have someone or something to grab onto ready before you try to stand.When you stand, do so slowly and gently with your head up and eyes ahead.  Moving your head to look down or from side to side causes everything to rock and roll  --  and not in a good way.Stand still for a while, clinging for dear life to whatever you can.  If you can't stand, slowly get down on all fours by sliding down your support.  If you start to fall, bend your knees and do a controlled, gentle fall.When you are ready, start to walk very slowly and smoothly.  Sudden starts and stops will be more difficult than slow motion.  Keep you head as still as possible and move it verrrry slowly when necessary.Above all:  Do not do the ataxic shuffle with scissors in your hand!   As far as the horking, yakking and call of the walrus part, ataxia seems to be a lot like sea-sickness.  To prevent sea-sickness, it helps to look at the horizon, which does not move.  Sitting calmly and looking steadily at something that is a ways away should help.  Keeping in mind that what you are experiencing is a normal part of the iboga experience and nothing to fear should also help.  If you have a vivid imagination, pretend you are riding the tilt-a-whirl or in the fun-house at the carnival.  Make it a game or a challenge, go slow and enjoy the weird perceptions. Hope this was helpful.  I'd like to hear about your experiences doing the ataxic shuffle!       ~Eon

that there are probably two basic causes for vomiting during an iboga experience:  1)  Having to chew and swallow a large quantity (a flood dose) of root bark, and 2) ataxia. Number 1 is no the reason for puking' it is no the wood in the stomach that makes you hurl' you hurl cos your brain is flooding with dopamine and seretonin (just like when you smoke way too much "Scag" you hurl cos your brain is flooded with dopamine and heavy binding to opiate receptors) Number 2' The attaxia is caused by seretonin flooding the motion centres at the back of the brain' these nerves run through the cerebral cortex and down the back of the neck' This is of why it is called a "Flood Dose" 10 grams rootbark shall get you rolling about' 500-600mg Ibo alks 15 grams shall make you lay down' or fall all over the place and hurl your heart out' 750-850mg Ibo alks' When you get used to Iboga you can eat it all day' get eyes open' eyes closed visual with no nausia or hurl and no attaxia under 20 grams! Iboga has no effect upon the stomach' it effects receptors in the brain' +NM+ Nobu +

To add here' Harmaline is weak and seriously uncomfortable' a single dose of 400mg is way enough' Harmine is way stronger' but a dose of 600mg would be a max dose' 500mg is the usual high dose' and it shall wipe you out completely' So I am looking at your 15 grams Harmaline 98% and am saying it would no doubt kill you' 400 grams of Red Cappi vine with 100 grams Chagropanga shall wipe your ego out and stick you with the light beings for some 6-8 hours' and you shall no be doing much walking about' that is if you can even get into a standing position' The only way to walk with attaxia through Iboga is shuffle and no move your head' eyes straight forewards' one slip n' it is all over' bar the "Barfing ) You have to eat Iboga regular each week for 5-6 weeks before you get used to it! Then you can eat enough so as to remote view anywhere in the world' or walk around your own body and examine it in minute detail' eyes closed' +NM+ Nobu + P.S. Harmine at 500-600mg shall floor you for 8-10 hours and you no doubt shall have a head ache for a couple of days afterwards' 400mg Harmaline is seriously uncomfortable' also Harmaline is no "Trippy" no one bit' it is psycho-active' but no visual at all' a 400mg dose feels like some form of Betel nut uncomfortable' with no strobbing or visual distortions' 500mg Harmine is visual' stobbing and gohstly internal visions' THH is stimulating and quite trippy at 250-300mg' but still goes no where without an added light molecule'

Just want to see if my new Topic Subject, Ataxia & Vomiting Help, will display.  ~e Yup!

Lay perfectly still and breath in through your nose and out through your mouth' No make a big deal of HOYKING' just let your gut do the work' It passes very quickly if you let your body do the work'# You shall heave for hours if you attempt to force it' It is psychological' the same as drinking Ayahuasca! Viva La Perge! Bliss! Nobu +