Help for a Novice Please - Experiencing Withdrawal Exactly 1 Week After Ibogaine

How much Iboga did he take exactly? It sounds to me like he either didn't take enough, or it's in his head.  And I don't mean that in a rude way - but that 'skin crawling' feeling is more psychological than it is physiological.  After a week with no oxycodone that feeling should be almost gone, with or without Iboga. I'd say he needs to get active.  Engage in hobbies, exercise, walks, eating healthy, journaling, etc.  He needs to keep his mind active so he doesn't notice any nagging symptoms. If he's still so troubled, boosters should certainly help. How much oxycodone a day was he taking?  Because I am somewhat surprised to hear that a week after a flood dose for an oxycodone addiction someone is still experiencing the crawling skin.  Even when I was shooting a gram a heroin a day, my skin would stop crawling after the 4th or 5th day.

boosting should help with this . - hp

i agree with the previous posts. imho,and from experience first hand,i believe he is dealing with feeling his body again. whether it is withdrawal or toxins flushing out is semantics?..... fair enough,but you should caution him that this kind of thinking is a slippery slope for someone a week in. the rush to medicate any and all sensations is what got a lot of us that mess in the first place. my advice would be stay on vigil stay in the moment booster dose as soon as possible engage in some sort of exercise daily....sweating is a wonderful way to remove toxins from the body. perhaps try a steam room and some massage. focus your work on getting him out of the habit of immediately wanting to medicate when he feels his body. good luck with him,and keep us updated on the progress. best of luck to you.

Thanks everyone, so much, for your help.  I'm not even sure what to say at this point... it's over.  He relapsed.  He wasn't interested in feeling better, he was obsessed with taking a pill to "feel better."  He adamantly refused every alternative that exists.  He was determined, and as I'm sure you all know, there is no stopping them once they've reached that point.  This is his 2nd ibogaine treatment in a year... neither time did he have visions, and I feel like that plays a massive role in this.  The first time, he must not've absorbed or gotten enough of the ibo b/c nothing was right... he was able to get up & do certain things on his own (go to the bathroom, take hot showers, etc.) ... he was totally off balance & made a couple messes along the way, but he was still capable.  He had no visions, he was able to sleep very shortly after the session had ended, and so on.  And that session was performed by an experienced provider.  I was there, and I learned A LOT, so this time around, I acted as provider (with two highly experienced providers on call & available to me), and he took more ibo to ensure the full experience.  He did end up having the full experience, and the only thing that seemed "off" to me is that he says he had visions, but it was basically a lot of imagery passing by, and he was  never able to zero in & focus on any one of them (which, from what I understand, usually takes you into a more specific vision that helps you get to the root of things).  I don't know what's up with the visions, but I REALLY wish he could've had something more this time around... he has SO much to face that he doesn't know how to do on his own.  I was really hoping for the ibogaine to show him his life and help him to heal certain traumas that have brought him to where he is today.  He was doing SO great for a few days... totally optimistic, not even thinking about pills... and now this BS crops up & ruins everything in a split second. Anyway, I feel completely defeated and depressed at this point.  I had so much hope & confidence going into this.  I fucking HATE this piece of shit country with its piece of shit health care that is only interested in keeping people as sick as possible because SO much more money is made off of sick people, and these piece of shit pharmaceutical companies, with their piece of shit doctors prescribing this poison like freaking candy & then shoving a different poison at you when you're ready to get off of them, only to addict you to something else, and so it continues for life.  Everything is SO corrupt.  And then all they have to offer people is an even bigger, more worthless freaking piece of shit "rehab" with a whopping 20% success rate, to REALLY ensure that people remain sick and addicted, lose all hope, and struggle until they die.  They make realistic alternatives illegal because they don't want a country full of healthy people.  People here don't stand a chance.  There is no support.  There is no interest in what's best for people.  It's just a handful of primitive, inbred troglodytes that control EVERYTHING and who are solely interested in monetary gain.  Whatever... I'm over it.  I'm fed up & disgusted with this god forsaken place.  There are third world countries out there that sound like a better alternative sometimes. Sorry... I'm obviously really emotional & angry right now.  I can't vent on him, so I'm doing it here.  I'm not mad at him... my heart is breaking for him.  I guess we're just going to have to try it again in a few months... one of these times, it'll stick & we can finally be free of this living nightmare.

Hang in there April!  Why not stick around here a little while, and draw support from our members?  Surely you can at least do things to help YOU deal with the madness. It sounds like his first flood wasn't enough.  If he was able to walk??  Lol, definitely not a large enough dose.  With my first flood I took a dose smaller than recommended and it was still a solid 12 hours before I even attempted to get to the bathroom, and even then my sitter basically carried me, and had to hold me up so I didn't fall off the toilet. As for the visions - I wouldn't focus so much on that.. They can be important, and certainly a source for drawing insight, but they're not necessary, and contrary to some popular beliefs, not everyone gets the visions, even with full on flood doses. The visions I had were pretty random images, and weird, impossible shapes mostly.  I didn't learn a thing from that.  My first time, it was when I stopped focusing on all the weird shit I was seeing, and started allowing myself to think about my life that I made some strides.. But even then, most of what my first flood did for me was help get me past the depression. Maybe he just isn't ready to quit yet. Iboga will definitely help to interrupt addiction for someone that wants to stop.  It is a huge help to have in your corner in the battle against addiction.. But if you don't even want to be fighting the battle, Ibo can't do anything. And actually, if someone wants to keep using, Ibogaine can become detrimental.  It will lower tolerance and mask some withdrawal symptoms - allowing people to get higher, with less money, and less consequences.  Also, a relapse after a flood is very dangerous - because tolerance is lowered so much, it becomes easy to overdose. Even now that he has already relapsed, please make sure he doesn't use too much, because his tolerance will still be affected for weeks, depending on how much Iboga he took. Keep us posted April, and give yourself a pat on the back for being such a well-informed and caring person. <3

Thanks so much.... I really appreciate your kind words.  Interesting about the visions, too... I guess he really isn't ready to quit.  I was so sure this time around that he was    I definitely made sure he didn't take anywhere near his normal dose.  He took half that, and he (thinks he) feels great now.  He thinks he's going to be able to take a very low dose now, and sustain it, but I just don't see that happening    Thanks again... I'll be sticking around here, since there's other information I want to look into as well   You guys are the best

April, you did everything right. Very beneficial, if possible, is to take ibo in a neutral setting, and to be able to spend at least a week away from one's home environment. I know that's not always possible. Perhaps if you have the opportunity again to sit for him, you guys can go somewhere, even camping, where the same daily triggers are not present. (You will want to be safe and close enough to civilization to get help, if necessary, of course) You got some great advice here. And if he is on half his dose, it was a successful harm reduction session. Hang in there.

Hello April and welcome - I have little to add in this thread other than my best wishes and hope for you and your boyfriend. I agree with everyone's posts...Charley said it, 'You did everything right'... I will not say do not be discouraged, but I will say try not to let it get you down. The fact is that MOST people will experience a relapse even after taking ibogaine. This is seldom discussed so 'frankly' for many reasons. The obvious ones are that it is not ALWAYS the case, and so we need not encourage anyone to relapse by saying this. It is all very tricky. We are dealing with what alcoholics say is "cunning, baffling, and powerful" and they are dead on. But take heart: many people DO relapse this is true, but that does not mean that they will go back to full blown drug use. Often times people will do it out of either curiosity or desperation...both of which are dumb reasons and I am guilty of doing both. Sometimes folks will freak because they DON'T 'jones' like they once did, and so...they will try to see if they can manage their drug of choice now. I know, it IS crazy...but that is exactly what addiction is: insanity. You are a wise and gentle person and I am glad you found the way here, I hope you and your boyfriend can find some peace. It ain't over yet April - you're still fighting the good fight. Try and get him to do a booster - make certain though that he does it with no narcotics on board.  And please stick around, for yourself as well as him. Glad you're here, Cal

Iboga can not change your desires (at least not in the first go).  It can help one manifest their will; and it might help start the ball rolling in the right direction.... hang in their

I have to agree wholeheartedly with everything Charley and Cal said. You did everything right from what I can hear.  And I think Charley's idea about finding a neutral setting - not just to do it in, but to recover for a week or so - if possible, is a great, and very beneficial idea. And what Cal said about many relapsing, but not always returning to full-blown drug use, reminded me to share some of my experience with you. It's true about not really craving the drugs as much after Ibo.. At least not as bad.  After my first flood I didn't feel that overwhelming need to use anymore, and that made me think "hmm.. maybe i can finally use 'recreationally', or however it is that normal people do it."  So that was part of the reason I relapsed after my first flood, though there were several others. (I am a master of coming up with reasons and excuses to use, as are most addicts) But anyway, one of the most amazing things that Ibogaine did for me: Every other time in my life that I've had any amount of clean time, and returned to using, it was always intended to be a one time kinda thing.. And inevitably, within 3 days at the most, I was full-out shooting heroin every single day again.. Every time. But after my relapse post-ibogaine treatment.. I didn't get as bad.  I didn't go back to full blown use.. I had a slip, that was on and off for a few months, but I was able to quit again.. And on my OWN this time.  That's what really blew my mind.  Never before in my life have I been able to quit using opiates, on my own, without the aid of jail or rehab.  But after having taken a flood and several boosters of Ibogaine, I was able to slow myself down, and then finally quit again, all on my own.  And to me, that was more valuable than quitting because of the Ibogaine.  Deep down, a part of me has always thought that I'll never be clean until I'm able to quit on my own, without jail, rehab, or other drugs. So don't give up.. You're on the right path, and this could be a good thing.. Which reminds me of a Zen parable I read somewhere before - if I could share it with you. ----------------------------- There was a farmer in a small village in China.  He was well liked and respected in his village, for his nice and hard working son, and his strong and beautiful horses.  And then one day, his best horse escaped from the stable.  All the villagers came out to offer him their condolences and sympathy for the loss of his horse, but he only replied "perhaps this isn't a bad thing". Then one day, several weeks later, the horse that escaped returned to town, and following it were 4 more beautiful and strong horses.  Again, all the villagers came out to see him, but this time to rejoice and share their happiness - but the farmer only replied "perhaps this isn't as good as you think". Several days after that, the farmers son was out riding one of the new horses when he was kicked off the horse and broke his leg.  And again, all the villagers came to offer sympathy and support. And again, the farmer replied "perhaps this isn't as bad as you think". Then a few weeks later, war broke out between a neighboring province, and all the men who were able to fight were drafted into the army, and forced to fight to help protect their village.  The battle was quick slaughter, and everyone from their village that was drafted to fight was killed.  The farmers son however, wasn't there for the battle because he was able to avoid the draft due to the leg he broke from falling off the horse.  And again, the villagers came out to rejoice with the farmer that his son wasn't killed in the slaughter, and again, the farmer only replied.. "perhaps this isn't so good". --------------------- That's kind of a winded version of the way I remember, but I think it's good enough to get the point across. I'm a firm believer that everything happens for a reason - and even when things look bad, they're happening exactly as they're meant to. Hang in there, and keep us posted.  I'm very glad to have you here :-) <3

Hi April, Sorry it did not work but it does not work every time, I had to take it four times and I know others who had to take it six times.  Your on the right track, relapsing is a part of the disease.  I believe it is possible to have w/d symptoms on the 8th day.  I remember trying to kick heroin and it lasted 8 days and I broke down on the 8th day, I had to for I could not take it anymore.  W/D  wears ya down as you can only stand it for so long.  The others gave you great advice getting a new setting out of the house is a good idea.  Your BF may get addicted again but I hope it is not as bad and that Ibo will work the next time.  Yes, addiction is hell. Wishing you and BF the best.  Don't stop trying, it took me 44 years and I'm doing good but damn 44 years is such a long time.  Oh, may I ask if you have any plans for aftercare, Ibo can not do it all by itself.  Maybe your BF could start attending meetings now to help get on the right track for his next treatment. Best,  cinderpath

Addiction is a true curse. I don't think there is a simple answer to it that would solve it all. It will always be a fight. Recognising your own problems is one of the crucial elements. That way you'll at least know you're fighting the right war, bevause not recognising it is in the end at least as much of a fight as not recognising it. I wish you the best and i hope you'll feel that you're not alone in this.

I want to start off by thanking all of you SO SO much for your encouragement and for sharing your own stories and experiences with me.  I can't emphasize enough what an amazing community I think this is.  I'd like to share an update, and it IS good news, as many of you have indicated it could turn out to be I should first enlighten everyone to the fact that I am also addicted to oxycodone, which throws a huge wrench into this entire scenario.  It's very difficult when you have a couple that share the same addiction, and one attempts to break theirs.  It is an extremely slippery road that must be navigated pretty much to perfection in order to succeed.  Often times, they end up breaking up for a huge variety of reasons I won't bother listing here.  Our relationship is quite different, though, thank goodness.  As I had previously stated, his first treatment was done by an experienced provider, and I was there throughout the entire session.  This time around, he wanted only me to be there.  I was sure to clear out EVERYTHING from the house that had to do with his use (we do not live together, so luckily, it was easy to clear things out, since I didn't have any of "my stuff" to get rid of or hide).  But even with all of his stuff being out of sight, probably one of the biggest triggers of all was me, which I couldn't remove (yet)... Throughout that entire week, I was riding on this limbo between (1) being there to support him, as he had NO ONE else on earth that knew what he was going through or that could support him through this (he made it extremely clear that he couldn't have made it without my being there), and (2) removing my influence from his sphere at the right time, so as not to allow ONE bit of temptation, since he of course knew I was a source of the drugs.  Well, that transition was not as easy or obvious as I hoped it would be.  There never came a defining moment where I felt, "Ok he's going to be fine on his own now... it's time for me to go."  On the day he relapsed, he still really needed me there, and strongly desired my support & my presence.  He & I both know (and he has said) that if I had left, he would've definitely relapsed, because things were still just too hard to deal with.  I'm going to switch gears for a second to explain something about myself that is also related to all of this.... I have this "thing" with intuition.  It's not your typical intuition... I'll just leave it at that.  And my "intuitions" have NEVER been wrong... not once, ever.  From the time he ordered the Ibogaine and set the date, I had such a confidence that this was going to be it.  In all his past attempts throughout our years together, I had always been very hopeful, but never possessed any kind of "knowing" that he would succeed.  This time around, there was no doubt in my mind that he would succeed.  I felt it very strongly as if it were a simple fact (based on this intuition thing of mine... that's just part of how it works).  So, when he relapsed, I basically became completely void of emotion that entire day, and I couldn't figure out why (and it certainly didn't help him at all... he thought I was upset with him).  But I wasn't even slightly upset with him... if anyone knows that relapse is a part of recovery, it's me.  I couldn't help the way I felt though... just so empty & confused.  Nothing like this had ever happened to me before, and the more I thought about it, the more I realized what a HUGE part of my identity this "intuition" thing is, and for the first time in my life, I felt like it had failed me.  I couldn't make sense of it, and I couldn't shake the feeling (or lack of).  So, on the day he relapsed, since he was feeling so much better (with regard to the withdrawal symptoms), I decided to go ahead and go home, so as not to provide any more source of temptation than I already had.  I live about 40 minutes away, so I'm really not physically accessible to him when I'm gone.  I definitely feel now, like I left at exactly the right time... That night, we chatted, and within those few hours I was gone, he had thought long & hard about everything, and came up with a great plan.  He chose to keep his dose VERY low and not allow himself to raise his tolerance or go back to the way things were.  He decided not to call our "guy" for more, but instead, make the 2 or 3 pills he had last him (normally those would've been taken within a few hours).  That alone was a HUGE improvement compared to the plan he had when I left his house.  He vowed to replace his addiction with healthier "addictions" such as going to the gym, exercising, walking the dogs, etc. and continuing with his original post-Ibo plan, and just keep his dose extremely low (only enough to keep him out of w/d).  That is when I really began coming back around, and feeling better.  Perhaps my intuition hadn't failed me?  I had to believe that... I simply had the specifics wrong.  He still succeeded greatly.  What I envisioned was him being free of the awful lifestyle we were stuck in.  The cycle you are all too familiar with, I am sure.  I saw debts being paid back, days filled with happiness and motivation, our lives not revolving around pills and stress.  Obviously, I was thinking that the only way that could be accomplished is if he kicked the addiction 100%, and I never considered the possibility of taking an extremely low dose and eventually weaning off all together.... not taking nearly enough to be "sick" all the time... the possibility of taking pills AT ALL and still being happy, stress free, and even pretty healthy.  I realize now that that IS possible, and that he is capable of accomplishing it. I can't even begin to find the words to express how happy I am now, and how proud I am of him.  His will power is back.  Control over his own life and destiny is back.  He is doing better than I ever could've imagined, considering the circumstances, and I was right... he IS succeeding!  Neither the Ibogaine or my intuitions have failed me at all.  He's sticking to his plan, he loves it, he's not having a difficult or miserable time, and in fact, he feels REALLY great and encouraged by it, and so do I.  I am so, so, so happy and relieved.  To see him stick with a plan... any plan... gives me such a great amount of hope and my confidence has been fully restored.  I no longer have doubts that this is it.... that he has succeeded, and that this will be over for good very soon.  Thank you all SO much for your support and encouragement.  You all hit the nail on the head.  Things just went a little differently than I had expected, and now that I see the possibilities, I am so greatly motivated and excited about what the near future holds for both of us.  I'm going to be posting a second thread here soon with regard to my own plan, to seek advice for that, so please keep an eye out for it   You guys are the best!!

April, I've been coming here & reading so I've been following your posts. I want very much to talk with you about all that's happened in your life lately & especially about your hope to use Iboga to wean yourself off opiates. But I'm too tired to post tonight & probably will be that way again tomorrow.( I have severe FM/CFS & on the days where I go to work I'm all done in when I get home.) Until I find the energy to post, you might want to read my "More Microdosing Fun" thread from about a year ago in this forum....

Thanks!  I will definitely check that out, and I look forward to talking with you when you feel up to it

Oh and by the way, I should've been more specific with regard to my boyfriend's dose, and what it is that has me so happy, hopeful & encouraged.... Before his Ibogaine session, he was taking 300 - 360mg of oxycodone a day.  Now, he is taking 45 - 60mg per day... a gigantic difference... and he feels fantastic!  He has no desire to take more, which makes the both of us ecstatic, because that is a huge step for him.  He used to take around 45mg or more per dose, but he would average a dose nearly every hour or two.  Now, he takes more like 15 - 22.5mg per dose, and only doses twice/day.  We never would've imagined that being possible.  And he's been doing this for almost a week now.  Normally, he would've planned to do something like this, and by the next time he was ready to take a dose, it'd all go out the window (just like most of us do).  There's something about that... when we're ON a pill or a high, we make all these plans & promises to ourselves regarding how we're going to improve our lives and get off these things.  Within 4 or 5 hours, we compromise, or justify, or put it off, and it just never happens.  When we're not on them, they're all we can think about. Anyway, I thought it'd be important to list the specifics, especially for those out there that're seeking information about Ibogaine.  I will definitely keep everyone updated.  I think it's really important that I use Ibo to lower my dose as well, because if we're both in the same boat, we'll have a much easier time succeeding together and sharing the experience.  We're all each other have... no one else in our lives is aware of what we're going through or that we're even addicted to anything.  This is an experience we should be sharing in together, so it's time for me to get on board

April, I think this is fantastic information for this board! Your boyfriend's huge dosage reduction IS miraculous...especially the fact that he is feeling so well on such a small amount. And I will get back to you with more info about my own microdosing experiences...I realize that I just kinda left things hanging at the end. Thank you for your clear & well written posts! I'm glad you're here.

Hello April - thanks for sticking around, you getting help from others here consequently HELPS others, by simply sharing your experience and hope...that is what's so beautiful about this kind of thing. It's all reciprocated. I want to caution you about 'dirty maintenance' as it is known: using microdose iboga/ibogaine concomitantly with narcotic analgesics to break tolerance down. As far as I know there IS no specific protocol for this type of treatment. This is primarily because such a protocol is going to be highly individualized...people have varying degrees of use, addiction and innate tolerance to their drug(s) of choice etc. Please continue to research and ask alot of questions. Remember too that none of us here are capable of rendering 'official' medical advice - most of us have little or no medical training and are speaking strictly from the point of view of personal experience and what we have learned through just 'being around'. That, and our accumulated understandings of the way these things work from our own research. Something I think you will discover - that unfortunately cannot be quantified (and so is ignored by the 'establishment) is that intuition plays an enormous role in people's work with these materials. It manifests in many ways - the obvious and physical determinations set by how our own bodies respond to the medicine -and other, more enigmatic ways which involve things like synchronicity and 'feeling'...trusting these intuitions, or learning to do so, is a major step (IMO) in learning the 'mechanics' of working with entheogens. Just because science does not yet possess the tools to measure these things by no means is proof that they only exist in our imaginations. I will look around for information on 'dirty maintenance' - there is only one article that I am aware of, written by Patrick Kroupa a few years back, and I forget where it is published. There is scant info on this protocol mostly because it is not the most common way which iboga is used and it carries with it unique risks and dangers. A conscientious and discerning grownup - which you seem to be - has every right in the world to pursue whatever help they can, provided that help does not harm anyone. Ibogaine research is mainly confined to the 'underground' because of the ridiculous legal status and so it is up to 'us' to learn what we can about all this while maintaining our integrity and doing our very best at providing real data and paying the utmost attention to harm reduction. No matter what - TAKE YOUR TIME...please. The biggest mistakes are made when people rush this. And sometimes we do not get another chance. Iboga can be used safely - it is every single day - but use caution and don't rush in to anything. You have come a long way just knowing what you do, give yourself and your boyfriend the best chance for recovery by learning as much as possible, and not making any decisions until you are satisfied of the answers. Thanks for being here with us, I look forward to hearing more from you - and best of luck to you!

Thank you!!!  I am definitely going to read this (don't have the time right this second, but I will be back on a little later tonight to devote my full attention to it).  I really appreciate this, and trust me, I completely understand your hesitance with regard to discussing or promoting 'dirty maintenance.'  People can so easily overdose... that is why I won't touch anything until I know as much as I possibly can about it and its possibilities.  I am a research junkie   This is great, and it definitely helps.  When I eventually do this, I will definitely document everything and post it all here, in the hopes that it might contribute to the whole of this community.  I would love to hear from as many people as possible about their experience, trials, etc. with this.  I am not really interested in experimenting with root bark based on what I've read... I feel like very small doses of HCl or TA might be a better route for me, but again, I must know more before making any real plans or concrete statements about it.  Thanks again!!