More Microdosing Fun...

thanks Sassy for sharing, it was nicely detailed, will look forward to your coming journeys with microdose

Awesome journal sassy!  I have noticed all the same things you have after my flood, and I feel encouraged by iboga when I take small doses.  I do 2-4 grams when I dose, and I get a definite buzz, but it's definitely manageable.  The flood will do the same thing as the microdoses, but it's really solidifies these feelings and makes it even easier to make healthier choices for a long time.  I say go with your gut, and do what feels right, but don't be too afraid of the flood, as it really can make it easy to stay on the right path.  Thanks again for sharing this, I look forward to your updates!

Great posts sassy - thanks for sharing. Sending good energies your way for sure! Just keep on keeping on and don't feel like you're missing out on anything. We are all different in our specific needs, listening to your body is very important in all this. Like you said, I think after you have been doing micro dosing for a while, you may become 'clearer' and feel more confident about flooding. But there is never a rush to do this. Just take your time and if it happens to happen, then it will happen  . You are doing great work and I'm glad you're here to share with us!

Thank you all for your kind comments! Unfortunately I'm not doing well today at all....I ate another 1,000mg rb this morning, felt a tiny bit of ataxia & then started to feel jittery, anxious & shaky. I feel as if I'm in withdrawals, very unpleasant. I'm going to stop microdosing for now, I've done 12 days this time around, just like I did last time. But my experience has been almost the opposite this time! Could the Gabon rb give a very different experience from the Cameroon rb? IDK, but I felt so good last time when I was eating the Gabon rb & my tolerance went down nicely too. That hasn't happened at all this time around with the Cameroon rb. I was feeling ok yesterday for a couple of hours while I was typing my above post...( .I'm such an optimist, whenever I feel just a little better I start thinking that everything will work out.) And I HAVE experienced the changes I wrote about yesterday, but today all the good feelings have just drained away, leaving me feeling very alone & scared. Afraid that not even Iboga can help me, I'm such a mess. And now I've got all this Cameroon rb here but I don't know if I'll even want to try it again. I just am not able to make sense of what has happened. Nobu's warning about taking rb daily just making a person "wired & psychotic" keeps coming to mind. I feel as if I'm getting closer to that state so I'm done with the microdosing for now. I also don't think that Iboga plays well with kratom & I've been thinking about switching to pod tea for my "back up" med......kratom hits on so many different receptors it can really mess a person up! And it's ridiculously expensive to boot. I'm so sorry about such a bleak post! But that's just my reality today & I think it's important to stay honest about both the good and the bad when journaling. GD, as far a flood goes, I wrote previously about the health issues that I fear would make a flood very risky for me. I know my dear friend River would sit for me if I decided to try a flood, but I wouldn't want to put her (or anyone else!) in a situation where complications could arise. I'm not a very strong person physically & I still haven't really returned to what is a baseline"normal" state for me since my hospitalization with pneumonia.

Sassy, I love your detailed posts, follow every one, even if I don't often respond. Thank you for taking the time and effort to post this here! And particularly to post even when it's not 'good'. Iboga helps a lot of things, including your ability to get in touch with real, honest emotions. You may be just having some feelings that you can go through the middle of. When it doesn't feel so good, sometimes it's helpful just to sit with it. Not every emotion is going to be something that needs more or less medication. While Iboga can help one 'feel good', it can also help one simply feel. This I've seen quite a bit of with people who stay in their heads a lot. I know this board, at this time, isn't really 'into' talking about emotional healing and health. And I know this is a huge component of what Ibo can do. And I know when there is emotional healing we get closer to who we really are, and tings start to feel 'better'. Sit with what ya got going, miz sassy, you are cared about, noticed and supported. All the feelings coming up, though uncomfortable, are you, and okay. There's a reason they are there, it may be a very old reason. Ibo is still in you, rolling with metabolites, maybe ask what you can learn from today, ask what you can learn from alone and scared. Love to you, Tia

Definitely listen to your body, and if you have to use, the poppies are probably a cheaper and better choice.  I have no experience with kratom, but from what I have read, it doesn't seem to be any better than opiates and iboga doesn't seem to work so well for the withdrawal from it, so I'd probably stick with the pods.

Hi claudie_drifts, I am sorry to hear about your problems.  I would like to mention that several people on another site tried doing it daily and it caused problems at or around the 8th day.  Dana has mentioned this several times.  When your diet habits change that means it is working, I too have all but given up coffee, soda and sugar and things like that.  It may be a good idea to back off until you feel grounded then you can try it again.  I would say keep the 8 day rule in mind.  I think you will be OK in a day or two.  Also, this is just me, use one drug at a time if possible, since Ibo does not get along with Kartom go with the pods or any short acting opiate.  Hey, your experimenting and you found your upper limit so now all you have to do is let it get out of your body and then try it again or go with the flood.  If and when you go decide to go with the flood tell the forum what your trying to kick and also about any health issues you may have.  There is a lot of experience on this forum and people who care. You'll be OK in a day or so - you watch and see.  cinderpath

love you girl,i have found that kratom doesnt mix well with rb or ta,if you ever feel ready,i will come to help any way i can,but i  think its better to be on straight opis to have the ib do its cure ,i seem to do better every other day rb,daily just doesnt feel good,but thats just me.the way i did it was not very taxing physically and i had very little w/d,however,i was able to titrate down slowly with the tramadol e/r,not possible for everyone,but gd did well on the pods,then ib,let me know if i can help-love koko

Maybe 1gr was excessive for your body (for microdosing) and already accumulated in the body, so the next day the other 1gr actually added to it, so then with the higher Iboga in body the ataxia, anxiety etc happened?

Gabonese bark is superior to the Cameroonian bark by most accounts...I know I have done bark from Cameroon and wasn't particularly impressed by it, then after I laid off a while it seemed to work better - while other bark (probably Gabonese) was generally stronger and seemed to 'carry' me further. Also it sounds very much like alot of this has been building up - microdosing is a cumulative effect on the whole, even though one may feel relief on the first dose. Take a break, perhaps after several days you can return to the Cameroon bark and find that it works for you. It may be considered less active than the other stuff but it is still iboga. Be nice to yourself, and keep paying attention to your body's needs. Also keep on postin' sister - not everything is gonna be roses all the time and it is good that you post your feelings honestly. Keeping that integrity will go a long way for you!

Sassy, I am hoping that you bounced back and had a wonderful day today.  If it did not happen today, then tomorrow for sure! I have been micro-dosing, too, and as you know, one of my little tribulations is anxiety.  I therefore have to be very careful about using RB lest the stimulatory aspect get me more anxious and tense.  For me, it only takes about 4 days of using ~750mg a day for me to start feeling overly tense. So, I usually only dose for 2 - 3 days.  The next day I am fine, and then I can 'coast' for 3 - 4 days. While coasting I will be able to tune-in on the iboga (when I'm sane enough to do so) and it is sort of like having a security blanket.  On those days, it lowers levels of both anxiety and depression and gives me something to hold on to. Hope to catch ya on the rebound! guenevere_walks

Sassy-- I think the 1000mg was just too much.  I know you built up to it and you were worried about your tolerance but I can't even handle 600-750 mg very well of any rb.  Definitely take a couple of days, even a week off to get yourself back to a less wired level.  Ibogaine does accumulate and the metabolites stick around for awhile so it's not like you will have nothing on board to help you.  Girl, I am starting to think we ought to do a full flood.  Keep working on your health the way you have been doing so well these past few months.  You eat right you take the best supplements and you have been getting out and about much more.  Take long walks, build up your stamina too.  In addition-- get that EKG, liver studies and just all the general lab tests most docs get with a yearly physical.  I can get ahold of an EKG machine and an oximeter to keep a good eye on your ol fart heart and how well it's working.  Perhaps Tia would be good enough to join us as she has way more dosing experience.  I think we could get this done and then you will have a baseline of where your medical issues are minus withdrawal issues.  That's why I went to Amsterdam- to figure that out.  As I said- I WANT to see your beautiful area of Canada and I don't mind flying up.  I need experience sitting and I'd pick poor Tia's brain to death LOL....

I have no idea how you folks feel under 2 grams of bark.  I am truly just an insensitive bastard!  I swear two grams I just barely feel, and 4 grams I finally get a buzz.  I suppose those low doses may be noticeable after days and days of doing it, but I know that I eat 2-4 grams of bark on days I decide to, and I will do it for 4-5 days, and wake and fall asleep with a trippy buzz.  I see trails and shit, but I feel great and can totally function just fine.  WTF is wrong with me?!?!

Thank you all so much for the support & encouragement~~~being in the role of one needing this is not a normal one for me at all~~~I'm far more comfortable being in the role of the calm, cool & nurturing caregiver. Iboga seems to be making me more conscious of my needs, many of which I've become very good at pushing into the background. I don't have much time right now but I wanted to thank you and to let you know that I'm doing fine again. It's good to know that the jittery,speedy feelings fade away very quickly when you stop microdosing. I'm still very aware of having Iboga aboard though...I KNOW it is changing me somehow & I trust it to do whatever it can at this time. River, that's exactly what I've been thinking! I think a flood just might be the way to go, but I definitely have to get stronger first & I'm working on that. Another thing...I'm not sure of this yet...but it almost seems as if my tolerance has gone right down again since I stopped dosing Iboga yesterday. Strange, huh, here I was shovelling down all that root bark for 12 days & freaking because my tolerance was going UP & not down and now that I've stopped microdosing it's down! One thing is for sure, I'm fascinated by Iboga and I'm sticking around for whatever & wherever it leads me next.... Tia, I was touched by your PM, thank you for that. Over the last 2 days I've been feeling as if I might just still be salvageable. Hope is alive again!

Howdy HH, Ida Know HH, maybe root bark is not meant to be a continuous buzz.  I know ya need the energy but the Gabon people do it for an initiation then they quit.  cinderpath

Oh, I don't do it every day.  I haven't done it for a week or more, but when I do, it takes 2 grams to feel it, and it takes 4 to really make it noticeable.  It takes me a 500 mgs capsule of TA, to really feel it, and I have eaten a whole gram, as well, and it was more than manageable..

I think you have it right, Eon, the jittery, anxious feelings I had while microdosing probably made me think I was in more withdrawal than I actually was. It can be very tricky trying to figure out whether you're actually in withdrawal or simply agitated & anxious. I feel so much calmer & more grounded now, even more so than before I started microdosing. It's really good to know that all of those speedy & unpleasant symptoms resolve so quickly once you take a break from Iboga for a few days. Tia, you suggested that I explore what "alone & scared" mean to me. In my case I'd say that it's just a matter of "sometimes a telephone pole is just a telephone pole", lol, no deep or hidden meanings that I'm aware of. Sometimes when I'm confronted with all the pain, trauma & loss I've experienced in my life, I feel unsalvageable, like there has been too much damage to repair in whatever time I have left here. I used to garden a lot back when I lived in my big old house in the country. One day I was trying to prepare a large cedar planter box for new plants. But it had been neglected for so long that the entire planter had become impossibly root bound, a solid mass of intricate tendrils with next to no soil left in there. As I was digging around trying to pull out the old dead plants & shake what little soil there still was out of them, I realized that it was a hopeless task. It was time to empty this planter onto the compost pile, fill it with fresh soil and start from scratch. That metaphor has stayed with me over the years and sometimes I feel just like that, like I've become root bound....that there's not enough life force left in me to try & clear out the mess & start anew...... But when I started learning about Iboga, I began to entertain the possibility that this plant might just be able to "de-frag" the root bound jumble and allow me to get on with the business of healing & living again. I'm well aware that my biggest obstacle is that I cannot seem to forgive myself for the ignorant things I've done in my past....things that hurt my children, my family & friends. The lyrics of Leonard Cohen's song "Bernadette" come to mind...." So many hearts I find, hearts like yours & mine, torn by what we've done and can't undo". Will there ever be a time when the memories of the past don't torment me? Or am I ready for the compost pile, to be turned over and sent tumbling into the endless cycle of samsara, more & more lifetimes of suffering? One day, by myself, high on acid, high in the Yukon mountains...40 years ago...I took the Bodhisattva vow. All these years later it still haunts me, and I have learned that the only suffering I have the power to heal is my own. I've learned that it's not necessary to suffer, but that it's necessary to suffer to learn that. As Tia says in her little footnote," I know nothing". Which is actually the same thing as saying," I know everything". Sometimes nothing remains but paradox. Well, it's time to give my exhausted brain a break and go for a walk! I hope y'all are having a good day.

I see your Leonard Cohen and raise you Tom Waits: Well, I done things I can't erase, Wanna look in the mirror and see another face. Wanna get out of the trouble I'm in, Wanna walk away and start all over again. Sassy, a lot of the things you said really resonate with my own feelings.  Way too often over the past 3 years, seemed like the only feelings I had were shame, regret, remorse, guilt, sadness and hopelessness.  I have found such feelings to be part and parcel with depression.  And though rationally I know that it's a distorted view of both reality and myself, so many times I just can't help but feel that way. "Will there ever be a time when the memories of the past don't torment me? Or am I ready for the compost pile, to be turned over and sent tumbling into the endless cycle of samsara, more & more lifetimes of suffering?" A friend and I have recently been discussing something that you might find interesting.  Do souls continue to progress after death, or do they need to be reincarnated to keep advancing?  People who come home after work, turn on the TV and drink beer until they pass out will probably not be inclined to progress after death on the spiritual plane either.  From everything of yours I have read, you are not that kind of person. We have still not come to a consensus on whether one can attain Buddha-hood while dis-incarnate or if it is necessary to do so while living in the physical world.  She says "only while incarnate" but I haven't bought it. Opies definitely did not help me keep a spiritual outlook.  In fact, I regressed while using them.  I suspect that they would do the same even for someone who had taken the Bodhisattva vow while tripping in the Yukon  Mountains.  I found that iboga really did rekindle my spiritual flame, and I suspect that it will for you, too. I found that a full-on, 20mg/kg flood was not necessary to light my fire.  I have said it before, and I'll say it one more time here, you should consider a light-weight flood of perhaps 1.5 to 2g of TA and see how it goes for you physically.  Health risks are presumably much less that way and you will most likely find it enlightening. The light-weight doses I did were enough to get this big, hard-headed dude re-opened.  And if that isn't enough for you, you can always try a full-on, 20mg/kg dose later... In Friendship, guenevere_walks

You might just be a little bit crazy GD...I mean this as a term of endearment...

Eon, thank you for responding to the feelings I spoke about in my last post...the remorse, the fear of never being able to forgive myself...these are feelings many people don't like to speak about. They are too painful, and there are no easy answers for them. For me to even talk about them here is a measure of the respect I have for both the intelligence & compassion I've recognized in Iboga Forum. I agree that the feelings of guilt, shame, remorse,etc. are all part & parcel of depression, & I've long considered depression to be a vital step in becoming fully realized beings. Sociopaths do not experience depression, nor do they experience spiritual growth. So I don't think of depression as necessarily being a negative thing, or something to desperately avoid or dance around by self medicating OR taking an endless array of ssris. But like everything else, if depression goes on & on & on, if it becomes the place we live in rather than a place we visit, it no longer serves us and therapy or some kind of intervention(psychedelic perhaps) is warranted. Interesting that you & your friend have been discussing whether or not further spiritual growth can be attained after death. I studied the Tibetan book of the Dead at different times in my life, & after my father died I spent weeks creating a pictorial representation of its' teachings. According to the Bardo Thodol, it is possible to attain full realization in all 3 of the "bardos", the 3 stages of death from the first one, the "Chikkai Bardo" in which the person realizes he/she has in fact died & is faced with the primary white light, to the "Chonyid Bardo", in which the person comes face to face with the karmic Dieties & Demons, and during the "Sidpa Bardo", during which the person chooses the form of their next incarnation. But unless a person has done the groundwork in their human lifetime, they can easily become disoriented or terrified by the wild sights & sounds of the Bardos and desperately seek comfort in the first rebirthing opportunity that comes along. So, according to Tibetan wisdom, it IS possible, but it is far easier & far better to use one's life on earth to become enlightened. Even if we don't manage to become fully realized beings at the time of our death, we will be able to transition into the Bardos with greater awareness and possibly complete our realization then. Maybe you know that Timothy Leary wrote a book called "The Psychedelic Experience", which is a manual based on the teachings of the Tibetan Book of the Dead designed to be a guide through LSD journeys? I have no idea how many people back in the sixties used this manual in their acid tripping but for those of us who did it was an unbelievably powerful & intense experience. We very literally felt "reborn". Perhaps that is why Iboga attracts me so much....I sense a similar power or quality there...

So, my root bark which I won in the drawing arrived yesterday and 2 hours ago I ate 1 gram. Withing half an hour I could feel it, the ear buzzing & the edges of objects lit up, a slight sense of being somewhat wobbly on my feet. I can tell you even now that this root bark seems to be a LOT more potent than the others I've had.....but it also feels "smoother" somehow. The initial rush is now giving way to a nice sense of clear-headedness and I find myself looking at the life I've been leading for the last nearly 7 years on doctor prescribed opiates. So much has been lost, so much has gone undone. If I could do it over again I would NEVER, never have started with the opiates, but I certainly can see why I did. The horrid p.a.w.s. like illness I had been living with for the 3 years prior to opiates would very likely have done me in if left untreated, and once on the opiates it really seemed as if I had been given a second chance at life. I didn't have a computer back then & had  been living a rather insular kind of life with very little connection to the "real" world. My exhausting though exciting "tours of duty" out in the remote mining & oilfield camps left me too tired to do much in my time off work. I knew nothing at all about addiction. I knew about alcoholism and had successfully quit alcohol with no problems whatsoever, so I had the idea that people who kept on using drugs & alcohol were just very weak people. I never did understand the kind of alcoholism that some had, where they NEEDED that drink first thing in the morning and all day long....after a night of drinking the last thing in the world I wanted was a drink! I went to quite a few AA meetings the first year after I quit drinking but I thought that a lot of the stories sounded very melodramatic...I really couldn't relate to the sense so many of the others had that AA had saved their lives. I just went because I liked the company, the camaraderie, and I tried to embellish my own drinking stories as best I could. I loved being able to make people laugh! Truth be told, I DID do some things under the influence of alcohol (many,many years ago)that shame & haunt me to this day...but the actual act of quitting it was no big deal. No withdrawals whatsoever. So I walked into the world of opiate addiction almost totally opiate-naive, in every sense of the word. Sure, I'd been told that these things were addictive but heck, so is chocolate cake & booze and I'd stopped those with no trouble so I wasn't worried. I think that the part of the story I didn't get back then was the sheer PHYSICAL aspect of addiction. All I'd ever heard about was the psychological aspect or the "character weakness" aspect. HA! Zoom ahead a few years later to me in the throes of methadone withdrawal~~~~that strong "character" of mine nowhere to be found~~~my body being viciously pummeled by wave after wave of the most unendurable pain I could have ever imagined. Seconds became hours, hours became eons, the thought of enduring this for days on end unthinkable. All the words used to describe opiate withdrawals paled beside the fury of the actual experience. There was no differentiation between mind/body/spirit/, there WAS no mind/body/spirit left....only pain. I remember at one point looking into a mirror and seeing those huge black pupils staring back at me....where did I see that before? And it came to me, the last time I had seen my pupils like that was long ago on an acid trip. They were just as big & black then too~~~BUT, at that time I was in a state of exquisite  bliss~~~~about as far removed from my present state as is humanly possible. Anyway, here I am today, looking around my place at all the unfinished projects around me and I realize more than ever how badly I want my freedom back. To wake up in the morning not needing to take anything. At this point I've learned enough about the possible ways to naturally increase dopamine production, I feel certain that I would be able to treat & possibly heal the severe chronic fatigue that led me to opiates. I don't worry so much about the pain, that was not what I needed the opiates for anyway & by now I've discovered many ways to treat it without them. I guess I'm saying that I'm beginning to very seriously entertain the idea of doing a full flood Iboga journey in the not too distant future. I don't want to live the rest of my life this way. I will be working to minimize the risks of doing this in the meantime....there is no point in trying to deny that they are there. But I feel a powerful INTENT rising up in me, flashes of my former "warrior" spirit calling me to take the plunge. I want to join you! I want ME back! Every day I read in here you inspire & encourage me that this CAN happen. Hmmmm.....this is very good root bark....Thank you aurie_grows, & thank you everyone here for the new hope I'm feeling...

Eon, when I have some time I'm going to go read some of your earlier posts to give me a better idea of what issues you are grappling with in your life. The only one I really know of is the anxiety, which I can unfortunately relate to all too well! Other than that I really don't know where you are at, except that you are clearly still seeking answers. I'm afraid that sometimes I tend to imagine that those of you who have managed to stop an active addiction with Iboga have found whatever you were looking for and pretty much resolved most of your issues during that process. Sobriety to me is such a deeply desired state that I guess I tend to forget that it doesn't automatically solve EVERYTHING in a person's life!!! But Spiritualism? My friend, go for your healing/reading~~~but please keep your eyes open & be very careful! Their statements sound very nice & I agree with many of them, but I am VERY leery of people attempting to make contact with those on the "other" side. I would be concerned about such actions having a "woodsypine's Box" effect, with it being much harder to close the lid once it's been pried open. I'm very much a believer in living life one day at a time, and one LIFE at a time. I think we are given enough to deal with in our present lives, & more than enough opportunities for learning, & for doing our karmic work right here, right now. I believe that whatever darkness we may have experienced in former incarnations is best dealt with by doing the best we can in THIS life. I believe that by healing the NOW, we are also healing the past.....I'm tired tonight & I know I'm not explaining this very well....but I have a very strong sense that it can be dangerous to go digging too deeply in past lives. There is a reason we usually don't have past life recall. God only knows we have enough to remember & rectify in our present lives.... Having said that, if there were a gathering like that near where I live, I would probably go too...simply because I'm a very curious person! I'll look forward to hearing all about it, Eon, just take care...

Spiritualism ? ? ?     Yeah, I know it's out there.  But then, so am I... I would never have considered it except that a very dear and wise friend suggested I go to Wonewoc for a reading and/or healing.  If I didn't know that she was truly concerned with helping me and had given the idea serious consideration, I would feel very different about going. One of the things I feel a real need for now is direction.  My kidz are on their own, my parents are dead, I have distanced myself from 'friends' who use drugs and alcohol, and I have eliminated the use of hard drugs (pot & entheogens are different).  I re-dedicated myself to walking the spiritual path on August 3, 2009.  I made a solemn vow to never lie Thanksgiving Day, 2009. I am going through some deep and wide changes. So now, where do I go?  What do I do?  In the past, intuition provided me with visions to follow.  Now, though, my intuition is on the blink.  The intended benefit of the meditation practices I am doing is to get my intuition back. I can think 10,000 thoughts about where to go, what to do, but 10,000 thoughts are not as valuable as one vision. guenevere_walks PS: "We affirm that the existence and the personal identity of the individual continue after the change called death.   "We affirm that communication with the so-called dead is a fact, scientifically proven by the phenomena of Spiritualism." While the thought of getting advice from that yenta Great-aunt Myrtle does not sound so hot, what about advice from a buddha, a saint, or an immortal ascended master? I really don't know how that would work.  Is it a matter of chance?  One day Aunt Myrtle, the next Mahavira?  One day Clem Kadiddlehopper, the next Lao Tzu?       ~e

Eon, you said," I can think 10,000 thoughts about where to go, what to do, but 10,000 thoughts are not as valuable as one vision." So true! Castaneda's teacher told him to  " Find a path with heart & follow it." I've often envied those who seemed able to do that, whether they are born again Christians or spending time in Peru becoming ayahuasca shamans & I have friends who are both. And I see that there are those here in this forum who have made Iboga their "path with heart" and are living true to whatever revelations they received from it. I have never cared one whit about what it was a person chose to believe in, even if it was something most people would find laughable....the only thing that I would want to know is " How does their belief manifest in their day to day lives"? The grandest, most sophisticated sounding belief system is worthless if it does not transform the lives of those who believe in it. Some years ago there was an "Avatar" course being offered where I lived. It spoke about learning to see belief systems as art forms, as something you could try on & play with but it was key not to become attached to any single one because they were all only illusory. It was a very expensive course so I didn't take it....I'd been doing just that for years anyway, trying on various belief systems. I suspect that those of us who have had powerful visions/awakenings by way of various entheogens or  emotional catharsis but then did not really follow through & allowed the experience to fade....I think we end up in a kind of limbo. We are too sophisticated to become Jehovah's witnesses & too afraid of totally blowing what's left of our minds with yet another entheogen. So we end up as the walking wounded, with this huge emptiness crying out to be be filled. I suspect there are a lot of us... As for contacting some of the great master teachers through seances....what could they tell you that they haven't told you already? IDK, Eon, have you ever thought of just going for a major, full on Iboga flood & just allowing it to do what it will with you? What have you got to lose? That's how I'm feeling lately....a sense of surrender....a deep longing to stop the endless flapping of my wings & releasing my spirit to ride the thermals. Ah...the effortlessness & grace of doing that.....

Be like Nike, just do it!

"Eon, have you ever thought of just going for a major, full on Iboga flood" Well, the one substantial dose of iboga I took enabled me to see the room I was in through closed eyes covered by my hands.  Yup, what I was seeing was exactly the same whether my eyes were open or shut  --  that's why I put my hands over my eyes, to make sure they were indeed closed and that I really did have X-ray vision. When I see the exact same things with eyes open or closed, I consider that to be a sufficient dose.  This time was particularly interesting because I could see the room and the objects in it through closed eyes just as they appeared (along with the colored light) with eyes open.  I see no reason to do a larger dose but have plenty of reasons for a smaller one. Actually, the first time out of the 5 times I have used iboga (aside from micro- & mini-dosing) was the clearest and most informative of the lot  --  and I only used 1.5g of TA that time.  I can also remember more about that first time than any of the others.  While it was cool to be able to see through my hands, that ability brought no real enlightenment. The last ibo experience I had turned into a real bummer.  All of my experiences have been solo, but I only regretted that the last time.  I seriously doubt if I would have gotten so deeply anxious and depressed if I had someone to talk to. Nevertheless, after ~2 months, I am thinking about another ibo voyage.  Since it will be solo, too, planning and preparation will have to be done so I don't have a rerun of last time. I'm going to see the Spiritualists tomorrow.  I had a VERY positive I Ching reading about it a couple of weeks ago.  In addition, there were some conditions that had to be met for me to be able to go.  The Universe met those conditions, so I will be going. I'll take notes so that I'm able to report back to you. ~et

Well, Eon, my last flood was sufficient to kick opiate withdrawal fairly easily, and I experienced the exact same x-ray vision, but it in no way was anywhere near as powerful as my first flood.  The visions lacked depth, color, and vividness that my first experience had.  That is why I have spoken about doing another proper flood (higher dose), just to have the full visionary experience.  I think that is what really solidifies much of the teaching..  At least for me, it seemed this way..

Hi guenevere_walks, When you do Ibo you see lights, right?  Are they blue at least when it starts?  Just curious.  On my last experience I saw 4 blue lights and lost my lunch and laid down and my eyes closed.  And a sponge bob type creature ran across the ceiling.  cinderpath

Well, I'm not Eon & I don't know about the Ibo "lights" but your mention of that "spongebob creature running across the ceiling cracked me up! What is it with these weird entities so many people on Ibo seem to see? I was wondering how on earth a spongebob creature could help interrupt an addiction, lol. I've never really seen any creatures/entities like that in any of my psychedelic journeys, mostly just saw what was out there in a completely new way.. Seriously, I'd love to hear what y'all think about those weird cartooney entities! I wonder if this is something that is unique to Iboga? Have any of you ever interacted with any of them? Are they friendly?

Hi claudie_drifts, I had taken 1.5 gm of the HCL and I do believe I am sensitive to it.  And it was overwhelming, I puked at the one hour mark as always on the HCL and this time it was far stronger than the other times.  After I lost my lunch I saw four blue lights (usually blue) and the sponge bob creature (it was really a figment of my drug induced mind - I doubt if it was a real thing) run across the ceiling and saw a whole lot of pictures on the ceiling going by so fast I could not see them or make out what they were and my eyes closed and I do not know how long I was out for.  For me, that was a very strong dose but necessary.  Now, when I woke up I had w/d, not all that bad but bad enough - it lasted for days, I just stayed in bed and moaned and groaned and couldn't stand noise or smells (like in the grocery store you walk in the detergent isle - rough) or dirty things like smoke - even MJ.  The hang over for lack of a better word was about 2 weeks.  Sometimes it is good to have a friend to blab to.  They don't really have to pay attention for they don't care what your talking about.  But you think your telling them something so your happy and they're happy your happy and happy that your trying to get better.  And if you didn't understand what I said it really doesn't matter just smile. Oh, that was my last Experience and I hope to never have another one.  It is as if Lady Ibo said  "cinderpath, you have to do your part.  Either take pain meds for life or do not take enough to get addicted, there is not much more I can do for you."  That is also when I went through 22 hours of puking.  Every three or four hours I would have the heaves.  I went for 2 days without drinking much water or eating but after a few days I seemed to be able to sleep and eat a little.  It also change my eating habits - no coffee for months, little sugar, soda, etc.  But it has been 5 months and I am just starting to drink coffee in the morning but trying to keep off the sugars.  Rather than having a 16 or 22 ounce Pepsi I drink 4 oz.  A little ice cream and a speck of chocolate.  Now, I am somewhat afraid about the cravings for I can not fight them, well I can but usually lose in the end sooner or later.  But I have some RB plus I gram of the HCL so should worse come to worse I can take the 1 gram which left me with the Ibo Glow the last time.  I woke up addiction free, no real aches or pains, half a brain, could walk and talk and felt kind of strong, energized in a way.  But could not eat or sleep very well.   That I believe is the Ibo Glow, don't know why the 1.5 slammed me.  Maybe it was because I have been sick and not eating and losing weight.  For example the day before the Experience I ate only 1 chicken leg or something like that.  I don't think I could ever take more than 1.5gm.  It seemed to affect me for a good 2 weeks, I mean buzzing like you should not be driving buzzing.  But ta, ta all worked out in the end.  I am not clean 100% but can live with my problem and with luck will not be bothered with it.  However, I have a lot of painful conditions which force me to use pain meds. As far as the 'entities' being friendly I really do not interact with them.  Usually I see wood flowing and walls breathing.  I see the grain in the wood flowing, flowing with life, the walls breath for everything is alive.  As Edgar C says even atom is alive.  No sense in discussing if an atom goes to heaven for they will be too small to see. LOL  Yea, had to get one in there.  Of course I see these thing on acid and once on I believe mesc.  I was maybe 16 and laying on the couch and the floor was morphing and so were the walls and it was the best color trip I have every had.  Then my dad came home and I though Oh no, what's he gonna do when he sees the house like this?  Thank goodness he never noticed.  As you know Ibo is much different from acid.  Acid is more spiritual for me anyway and easier on the body.  Ibo is a learning experience like going to school, sometimes you see nice things but often times you see not so pleasant things.  If this happens you open your eyes and tell it to change, that's what I did anyway.  Well I hope this long answer answers you short question.  Love talking to ya,  cinderpath

I saw cartoony characters too during my flood-- but they didn't really interact with me.  I wasn't in much a mood to interact with them either-- I was too busy withdrawing.  ON the last day when I was done withdrawaing-- then I saw more scenes-- and my part in the scenes that showed me my faults and parts in things.  I am really good at playing the victim-- I wasn't just a victim, I was a player too in the entire mess of my life.  And I needed that last day of iboga to see that.

Hey claudie_drifts, gottta tell ya about my experience today at Wonewoc Spiritualist Camp.  It went something like this...      I took my troubles down to Madame Rue      You know that gypsy with the gold-capped tooth      She's got a pad down on Thirty-Fourth and Vine      Sellin' little bottles of ... Love Potion Number Nine      I told her that I was a flop with chics      I've been this way since 1956      She looked at my palm and she made a magic sign      She said "What you need is ... Love Potion Number Nine"      She bent down and turned around and gave me a wink      She said "I'm gonna mix it up right here in the sink"      It smelled like turpentine, it looked like India ink      I held my nose, I closed my eyes ... I took a drink      I didn't know if it was day or night      I started kissin' everything in sight      But when I kissed a cop down on Thirty-Fourth and Vine      He broke my little bottle of ... Love Potion Number Nine      ------ guitar solo ------      I held my nose, I closed my eyes ... I took a drink      I didn't know if it was day or night      I started kissin' everything in sight      But when I kissed a cop down on Thirty-Fourth and Vine      He broke my little bottle of ... Love Potion Number Nine      Love Potion Number Nine      Love Potion Number Nine      Love Potion Number Nine ("Love Potion Number Nine" by Leiber / Stoller  --  The Clovers, The Searchers) Yeah, it was, like, totally bogus.  First she told me it was time to come down from the mountain.  What crap!  I like it up here, and my cave is so warm and cozy. Then she told me I have a Native American spirit guide.  More crap!  Though it did make me wonder a wee bit because another clairvoyant had said the exact same thing. Then she said that I should get into counseling  --  she mentioned helping people in the 12-step program.  And that was absolute insanity!  I would NEVER get involved with helping addicts and alcoholics. That just proves to me, and to you too, that this whole spiritualist BS is just that:  B F-ing S ! ! ! But then, I could be wrong...    Namaste ~et

OMG, I just read all your fascinating posts & can't wait to get back to y'all! Unfortunately I'm heading out the door & won't be home till way late so I hope I can stay awake to post then, if not, then tomorrow.

Hi guenevere_walks, Everyone's got an Indian for a spirit guide, never a Black or Asian guy.  Yea, I have noticed that.  cinderpath

HAHAHA!!!

Well, I'm on day 1 of reducing my opiate dose to what I'm prescribed, it's quite a drop & I'm feeling very fatigued/unmotivated & have RLS, so I haven't felt up to much posting today. This is all part of my getting myself ready to do Iboga, to stop using kratom completely so I don't come to Iboga all muddied up with that, since it seems Kratom & Iboga don't play together that well. That's why I stopped microdosing for now too, but once I'm functional on the much lower oxy dose I'll start that again. If I find that I can't adapt to this lower dose even after a few days I might order some poppy pods to use instead of the kratom, but I am feeling very hopeful right now that I'll do fine with the lower dose in a few more days.

Rolling over to pods is a great idea...they are by all accounts pretty easy to break down on , and iboga works fantastic for pods! You should have zero probs switching from kratom to pods, I imagine, then you can be in a good spot to let the iboga work its magic. Wishing you the best!

Thanks brightwillow! How about if I manage to do fine on just the oxys I'm prescribed....how does Iboga work for those? Seems to me that most of the Iboga reports i read are from people coming off injection heroin....something I've never done. Just wondering if Iboga works as well for oxys as it does for heroin? Ha, not that I'm thinking of going on heroin! The pods are just a last ditch kinda thing for me & I won't go there unless I truly can't function on this lower dose. Those darn pods are expensive, though not as bad as kratom...

Hey sassy! Yes ma'am iboga is very very effective for oxycodone...in fact, oxycodone is one of the 'SAO''s that would be recommended to be on (as opposed to methadone or suboxone) prior to a treatment with ibogaine. I have bought and used kratom  myself - that shit is outrageously expensive for the amount I have to take for efficacy. Pods, on the other hand - you can get for around a buck a piece, maybe a buck and a half, and they are very effective. Pods contain mostly morphine, along with codeine and thebaine and several other opiate alkaloids. For the money it is hard to beat poppies and there is no RX required. Here is a link to a reputable pod vendor with reasonable prices: http://poppyspods.com/zencart/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=4_5_13 - maybe check them out. Good luck!

Oh good, I'm very happy to know Iboga works well for oxys! I just checked out that link you gave me & they have much better prices than the other places I've been looking at, so thank you for that. Those "large" pods....how many would it take for someone with a pretty hefty tolerance like me & how long do they last? Can they be crushed and put into capsules or do they need to be made into tea? Well, I'm almost through day 2 of my much reduced dosage. I feel almost normal for the first 4 hours after taking my prescribed dose but the last 4 hours are pretty rough. I slept through much of today, having very vivid dreams. I had a great visit with my father, who died 21 years ago....he was sitting there eating Iboga & telling me to get off the damn opiates! I suspect I was influenced by watching the "Going Tribal" episodes today where Bruce Parry heads into the jungle of Gabon to get initiated into B'witi. Man, watching that brought back a lot of memories...PBS & Channel 9, the Discovery Channel...those were like the soundtrack of my life when my kids were growing up. Seems there was always a fellow with a British accent stomping through some jungle eating bugs & scary looking herbal concoctions. We loved those shows. Roy, thank you for the great answer to my question! I enjoy your posts very much & I love your dry sense of humour...that comment about being worried about your dad seeing the walls & floor of the house all waving around cracked me up! It reminded me of a time I dropped acid while preparing a vegetarian meal for our communal house & we had invited my parents. By the time they arrived, no food was ready because I had become so enthralled by the beauty of the vegetables I was slicing that I had sliced up pounds of them, paper thin slices & stuck them all over the big front window of our living room so the sun was shining through them. Vegetable stained glass windows....& at point I was way to high to cook anything & just told everyone to go feast their eyes on my masterpiece! Eon, that was one of the funniest posts ever! Yeah, the neighborhood HAS gone to hell since 1492! I have to say that I agree with you about the Spiritualist's advice to you being bogus...I hope she didn't charge too much for that drivel! I went to someone like that once. She had a thick Dutch accent and she kept telling me that the secret to my future happiness would be," Your vork iss your play & your play iss your vork!" But I've often thought about that & it does make a lot of sense and I did my best to stay in occupations I actually enjoyed, so it was good enough advice even if it wasn't particularly personal or divinely inspired, lol. The weird thing is that sometimes the universe speaks to us even through charlatans, so I never totally dismiss anything that comes my way...Ha, that stupid song keeps going through my head now! I love the comment about everyone having an Indian spirit guide, never a Chinese or Black one!

Just wanted to say 'hey' to you Sassy!  i'm glad your oxy reduction is going as well as it is.....

Sassy - I'm not sure what doses of oxy you're on right now, what do you need to 'hold' you? I could probably help you gauge the pod doses accordingly if I knew what your current tolerance was like. Yes, you can grind pods and capsule them, but that takes alot of caps and I have just ground them and mixed them in applesauce to eat them. They aren't yummy but I have definitely eaten nastier plants! Many people simply make a tea out them. Some folks weigh the pods (minus seeds) and some just go by the number of pods to dose. I recommend weighing them, even though they are pretty similar with respect to the size/weight thing...it has been a while since I've used pods - but I remember I never exceeded 5 jumbos at any one time, I've puked on those things a few times...from over doing it. They are very effective. If you take a dose when you wake up in the morning, like with your coffee, they will likely hold you all day long. They last a good while. At the most you'd maybe wish to take another small dose after supper, but most of the time a single dose can hold a person for the whole day. For many reasons I recommend pods to someone who still has some time on their hands before trying to interrupt their opiate addiction with a big iboga dose, they are natural, cheap, there's no RX needed, and the dose can be adjusted very easily. I think poppies are a better way to go about 'this' than kratom, that's for sure. Wishing you well!

Hi claudie_drifts, "I agree with you about the Spiritualist's advice to you being bogus" A 'Sarcastic Positive' can be defined as using a positive statement sarcastically to indicate its opposite.  "I REALLY appreciate that," when taken sarcastically means "I don't appreciate that at all!" A 'Sarcastic Negative' similarly uses a negative sarcastically to indicate its opposite.  "I DON'T appreciate that at all," when taken sarcastically, means "I really appreciate that!" I guess that my use of 'Sarcastic Negatives' in my post was unclear.  I meant to indicate that Debra, the clairvoyant, was indeed right-on about a few things that I can verify.  Allow me to remove the 'Sarcastic Negatives' from my post and translate it for you: First she told me it was time to come down from the mountain.  I have been wondering how to tell when I have achieved what I need, when I have recovered  from my negative, unhealthy habits and when I can return to the world without regression or relapse. Then Debra told me I have a Native American spirit guide.  Another clairvoyant had said the exact same thing.  That other clairvoyant was also my shrink, a clairvoyant of modest ability.  My shrink was in a trance state, doing some energetic healing work with me and her reaction to being admonished to "Leave him alone!" by a Native American presence was clear:  she was freaked-out.  It looked just like she had seen a ghost! Then Debra said that I should get into counseling  --  she mentioned helping youths and other people in the 12-step program.  As you may have noticed, I have been working to help addicts and alcoholics for over a year now. To be able to really help someone, we need to put aside our egos and conditioning so that our intuition reveals what should be done.  I have been atop this mountain trying to regain a functional, useful intuition.  When I do that, I will be able to effectively help all beings. Debra spoke directly and clearly to questions and circumstances I have without any prior knowledge of me, those questions or those circumstances.  I do not consider this to be a coincidence.  As Roy might put it, she is the "real thing." ~eon

Sorry about that Eon, I'm usually more perceptive than that...I think this mini-detox is making me a bit dull & slow! That being said, I'm glad you got something out of your reading! I DO believe that there are people with genuine channeling & other clairvoyant abilities, although people who have really good empathic listening skills can often seem to be reading our minds too... Haley! Good to see you here...yeah, it's going really well...this is day 3 already! I think the microdosing(Iboga) I was doing could be helping me because I've never been able to do a big drop in dosage like this before. I'm going to re-start the microdosing in a couple of days, once I feel that the kratom is totally out of my system. Cal, right now I'm on 120mg oxycontin, taking 40mg 3X daily. Except for one 20mg Ramipril (B.P. med) that's the only RX I'm taking. And no more kratom! Before this "mini-detox" I was taking 160 -180mg oxycontin daily and then switching to kratom when I ran out, so I'm very happy with how it's going. So how many capsules would a large crushed pod fill? Heck, when I was using kratom, I often swallowed 20 capsules at a time...so unless it's a lot more than that, no problem.

Hiya claudie_drifts - Well sister, I am not sure how many caps a large pod would require, but if you'd been capping up the kratom in 20+ gelcaps, it shouldn't bug you to do it for pods. I have a hard time swallowing pills sometimes, so whenever I can I just 'toss and wash' yucky plant stuffs hehe... 120mg of OC is no sweat for iboga. Plus that amount of oxycodone should be reasonably easy to roll over to pods. I'd suggest trying 3 or 4 jumbo pods and see how it makes you feel. If you're familiar with the effects of morphine sulfate, it is very similar to poppies. You can certainly tell they are mostly morphine. It isn't as 'clean' of a feeling as something like OC that has been 'refined' but it does the trick, and if you're looking to kick anytime in the next few months it's a cheap and safe way to maintain - not to mention pretty easy to break the doses down. Let me know if there's any way I can help and I will be glad to. Take care

Thanks brightwillow, that's very encouraging info! Yeah, it was making me very nervous when my use was going up to 160 -180mg OC, so this drop in dosage makes me happy....I'm hoping to do another drop in a couple of weeks to get myself under 100mg per day....I want to make it as easy as possible for Iboga( & for me too!) Still it's all still theoretical as I haven't needed to be very functional yet during this taper! I'm not exactly suffering but I'm not very motivated or energetic either, so we'll just have to wait & see whether or not I can work ok at this dosage. I've got till Wednesday & if it's just too hard I'll try the pods. I've heard some scary stories about how addictive pods are, but if they are anything like morphine they won't be a problem for me at all! Morphine has never done a thing for me other than stop withdrawals...it's nothing like OC. Hmmm, now you've got me wondering if I could use the pods to bring my dosage even lower....I mean if I don't feel anything from them it should be easier to use less & less, ya know? This is the perfect time for me to get my use as low as possible. We're having beautiful weather & I have next to no pain, physical or emotional, so I'm just gonna keep on making hay while the sun shines! I really appreciate the encouragement & info, my friend, thanks so much!

Pods are not any more or less addictive than anything else that has affinity for these receptors, and tolerance is affected just like any other opiate. I share the same feelings as you about morphine. I never found it particularly pleasant as I did oxys - even when I was banging as many OC 80's a day as I could, there was still some measure of comfort in them....not so with morphine, at least for me any way. They only kept the sickness at bay.  This is one of the reasons that I find pods so easy to work with - they are 'cooperative' in that it is easy to break tolerance down simply because I do not particularly enjoy the way they make me feel - it is a strange situation: they will 'hold' you but  not necessarily 'make you feel good'. But for our purposes here, that is perfect.  Maybe spend fifty bucks on them if you can afford it, and give them a 48 hour trail run to see how you'll do. My guess is that you will find them reasonably effective when you get the dose right and they are very workable where an iboga detox is concerned. Let us know how you're doing and what you decide or if you need any help around dosing etc. Take your time and keep pressing forward - you can take your life back I promise!

You wrote: " you can take your life back I promise!"   Ya know, if someone had said that to me even half a year ago, I would have thought "yeah right & pigs can fly." After spending years reading & sometimes posting in many of the recovery type forums, I saw very few people truly getting their lives back. I saw that AA/NA did it for a small handful, but my personal feeling was that the abstinence approach taken by AA/NA could only work for those who still had a fairly healthy dopaminergic system, which would with time & abstinence return to a more or less a normal state. But what hope could there be for those like myself, whose "normal" even before opiates had been a miserable PAWS like existence? I saw that even for the healthiest addicts, quitting their doc was a major challenge, & for the rest....well I couldn't count how many tapers/detoxes I followed through the years....some lasted a few days, some a few weeks & others managed a few months before they relapsed.   It's kind of funny, looking back now, how my view of addicts & addiction has changed. The first couple of years I was on full time opiates, I was disgusted with all those rotten addicts who had caused opiate meds to be so stigmatized & so difficult for us *legitimate* pain patients to get scripts for. When a doctor would give me a big talk about how many people were diverting these meds I'd say " Yeah, so there are these creeps shooting up this stuff in alleys, but what's that got to do with ME???"   These days I know that many of those homeless junkies downtown started off exactly like me. Some doctor had given them opiates for long enough to make them dependent and then cut them off....I had a fellow renting a room in my place a few years ago & he was on methadone. He had owned 2 construction companies, owned a beautiful home, had a great family, the whole thing when he fell off a roof and broke his back. He was put on opiate meds for over 2 years while doing physio & recovering. He was doing well, getting stronger & spending more & more time on the job sites, when his doctor decided he didn't need the opiates any longer & told him to start a fast taper. Well, we all know what happens next in this scenario...as his dosage was brought down each week he became more & more fatigued until he was unable to look after his companies or his family. Seeing the results of all his years of hard work starting to go to ruin he panicked, he needed to find a way to get stronger fast. When he confided in a young crew member, he was told that a bit of heroin would have him back on his feet in no time....& sure enough that turned out to be true. He hid his heroin use from his family at first & he did extremely well during the first few weeks of use. But then the problems started. His dealer got busted, & word on the street was that the current supply of H was both weak & cut with a lot of crap. So all this meant that he was spending a LOT more time just looking after his habit, and his family & work life began to suffer. When he finally broke down & told his wife, she did the whole "tough love" number on him & threatened to leave if he didn't quit. Well he already knew what trying to quit involved so he pleaded with her to allow him to get on the methadone program. She agreed to that and for the first couple of weeks things were looking pretty good. But then it all started falling apart. He was turning into a methadone "zombie" who lost interest in almost everything....he was constantly on the nod & it wasn't long before he lost his license after causing a number of MV accidents because he kept falling asleep while driving. He asked repeatedly to have his methadone dosage lowered but each time he did so, his doctor raised it instead.( I wouldn't have believed that but the same thing happened to me years later.) His companies went broke, he was deeply in debt and his wife threw him out. When I got to know him years later he was still on methadone, but he had changed doctors & had tapered down to 20mg per day. He was only in his late 30's but looked like 60 with rotten teeth, sallow complexion & dull eyes. He had nothing left to show for all the years of hard work, only a few old photos of his family.....& he would start crying when he looked at them. And I'm sure he would have cried seeing me a few years later on a far too high dosage of methadone myself, falling asleep at every red light.... But today, your words are real to me Cal, & there are days when I can almost taste the freedom ahead...it's no longer an impossible dream. And today, day 4 of my major dose reduction, turned out to be a very good day. I've tried & failed at this so often before, I think that the root bark I was eating up until not so long ago is somehow still working in me.....I'm so grateful for the boost!

- I understand that, believe me I do. But something I have come to realize, come to believe is true...that we may fail at our endeavors, but we are never failures unless we quit trying. I know that sounds like a cliche, and that its only 'semantics' but it is true nevertheless. My old man used to say,"its not how many times you fall down, its how many times you get back up" and he was right. I struggle still with impulsiveness, reckless or careless behaviors, etc. But the process is unfolding, I have become willing to engage it, to do my part. This is the crux of any successful undertaking - our willingness. When we become willing to endure the pains that come with growth, then we are able to achieve that growth. I am only still learning this myself. I have known intellectually for a long time that this is true, but to put it into practice required an amount of acceptance that I couldn't muster before. I guess I needed more craziness and pain in my life before I accepted that 'the only pain we can truly avoid is the pain of trying to avoid pain' - that's a paraphrase from an author I can't remember but it has always resonated with me. I'm glad you're here sassy, and glad that you're sharing so openly such an intimate effort as getting clean from opiates. It helps on all fronts I think. It can reach people who are in the same boat as you and also hopefully provide you with some comfort and an outlet - we all win when we share like this!

Thanks brightwillow, I'm happy to be here & happy to share my experiences, my ongoing battle to regain my freedom from opiates. Sometimes I've wondered if I belong here....since I'm probably the only one here still addicted to opiates....but your post helped me realize that this might be of value to newcomers who are likewise still addicted & just beginning to consider the possibilities of Iboga. Cliches don't bother me at all, btw. Certain sayings only become cliches because they are so true & resonate with so many... Yeah, I'm definitely in good spirits, Eon, I'm very pleased to be getting by with so much less opiate now! But I AM a bit concerned about the next 3 days....my holiday is coming to an end and I will need to be fully functional for the physical work I'll be doing. The last couple of hours before dosing are still pretty rough but the last 5 days I've been able to just go lay down when it got bad. I won't have that option the next 3 days & it's always seemed to me that I "burn" through the opiate a lot faster when I'm physically active....oh well, it had to happen sooner or later....not many people have the option to lay about for months while they taper down! No, I'm not in touch with him any more, Eon. I'm very embarrassed to say that I wasn't all that kind to him at the time...I was not on opiates yet, I really didn't have a clue and I know I judged him more harshly than I would ever judge anyone today. I felt sorry for him at first but then began to see him as kind of a wimp & a loser, a useless couch potato who just seemed to lay around feeling sorry for himself. I had NO idea at all about what it had taken for him to get himself down to 20mg methadone from over 300mg, no idea about the leaden limbs, lack of motivation, deep depression that is just part & parcel of the seemingly hopeless battle to extricate oneself from that stuff.  Perhaps if I had not been so stupidly judgmental & actually heard what he was telling me, I would never have taken my doctor's advice to get on opiates 24/7! Ha~~~from my ignorant & egotistical point of view I thought that he had become a heroin addict because he was a very weak person. And me, well I was a strong & independent woman, a natural leader, smart, talented----no way would I ever end up like that!!! Ha, talk about karma. There I was a few years later, zoned out on methadone myself & it was oh so clear to me that others saw & judged me the way I had the builder. And it was just as impossible for me to bridge the gap as it had been for him...I tried & tried to explain to my family and friends what it was like but soon learned that this just wasn't possible. It's truly unfathomable for anyone who hasn't been there. It was horribly lonely too, until I began to connect with others in the same situation. I know that the bonds I formed then & am still forming today are what keep me going. I'm grateful to all of you, for your kindness, compassion, for all you do to help others who are still suffering.....but most of all...just for being there.

Well, it's about time I got this thread caught up...I'm doing REALLY well with lowering my oxy dosage....having gone from 160-180mg per day down to 120mg & even able to put in a couple of days of hard physical work without using more than that. Then yesterday I got down to 100mg with no problems & today I'm trying for 80mg. That might turn out to be a bit too fast...we'll see how it goes once I start working with my sister to move & stack the 5 cords of firewood that are sitting in our driveway!!! And once we've moved that we're having 13 tons of gravel dumped in the driveway which we'll also need to move & spread by hand. I'm planning to start a regimen of ULDN (ultra low dose naltrexone), taking just 1mg naltrexone at night to help lower my tolerance so I can taper the oxys down more easily, I'm just waiting for the nal to arrive. Tomorrow I'm going to take a gram of that awesome root bark I won from Cerberus. I was surprised at how sensitive I was to such a low dose of Iboga even while still on opiates when I was microdosing with it before, it will be interesting to see how that amount affects me now that I've lowered my opiate dosage so much! I'm actually kind of amazed how relatively easy this big dosage drop has been so far.....I believe that the Iboga is still somehow working in me...& I'm wondering if the pomegranate juice ( that ridiculously expensive & delicious "POM" stuff!) I'm guzzling every day is doing something. IDK, but I've tried to taper down so many times in the past & it was agonizing, never anything like this where I'm in a good mood & able to work to boot!

Yeah, Eon, these are exciting days for sure! The light at the end of this opiate tunnel is getting closer & brighter....*possibility* is replacing that long corridor of locked doors that seemed to be my future not so long ago...& while I would love the drum rolls of an Iboga *miracle*flood dose experience...for now I'll follow this gentler path I'm on as far as it will take me. I know there are many opiate users out there who are too old/debilitated to safely do flood doses & if I can find a way for Iboga and/or LDN to help them taper/detox without doing so I would be delighted! I am actually feeling better, stronger & healthier, even with the big dosage drop of the oxys, so a flood no longer seems so out of the question for me now. But I'm thinking~~~if I were to do a flood now, then I would never know whether I could have tapered off the oxys completely by the method I'm using now. We already KNOW what a flood dose can do, but there is very little info about using Iboga the way I'm doing, so if I can add a little to the growing body of knowledge/experience here...then so much the better! I can always do a flood dose later, whether or not I manage to quit the opiates completely by my present method. Ha! I'm just greedy! I want my cake & to eat it too.....typical addict....I want to know EVERYTHING & experience EVERYTHING. The only thing that's changed is that it's ok if it takes a while. Yes, I read mushroom's thread & would love to hear more about how his wife got off the pods. It wasn't clear to me whether she had microdosed Iboga to accomplish that? Or even if the pods were her primary doc? It's very interesting to me, esp since I've got some pods on the way....I originally just wanted them for an "emergency" stash, to use instead of kratom since pods are known to play well with Iboga, better than kratom & less expensive. But now, what with having gotten my oxy dosage so nice & low, I really don't NEED an emergency stash. But I still plan to try the pods just to see how they work for me & to see if they just might be even easier to taper than the oxys are....& if so I would consider switching to them. I really appreciate the encouragement, Eon! We guinea pigs need a pat on the back once in a while too, as we bumble along hopefully....ingesting novel substances, putting on headphones to hear binaural frequencies, staring at candle flames, meditating & twisting our bodies into odd yogic positions...AND attempting to move mountains of firewood. Speaking of which, it's time to put the work gloves on & get back at it!

Oh my, reading through this old thread brought tears to my eyes. First, because some of the posters in this thread have seemingly vanished into thin air & I miss them very, very much....talking about Eon ( I've pm'd & emailed him a couple of times with no response), and Riverhaven (same thing), and Tia (who I've seen on the List a bit but miss her presence here so much). And Nobu...I really miss his unique & interesting views! Thank goodness Cal & Roy are still here from what I see as the "original bunch"! I do realize that this board has had many wonderful new posters since I was last active here...I just haven't formed the kind of bond with them that I had with the "originals"( yet!). And then there was the hopeful note I left on with my last post here, & then I, too, pretty much just disappeared, leaving so much unsaid. I always hated that, when I'd find an interesting thread in a forum somewhere & read all the way through it just to be left hanging at the end with no idea of what happened next. ( I've noticed this happens a LOT with the threads about people trying to taper/detox from opiates/opoids.) And, recently I've had a couple of people I don't even know (from other forums) contact me to tell me that they read through my old microdosing thread here, were very touched by it & wondered what had happened. Finally there was April with her interest in microdosing Iboga & who I directed to this thread not even remembering that I'd just left things hanging the way I did~~~So, after reading it again today, I decided it was time to tie up the loose ends. Here's what happened: A few days after my last post, I caught a bad flu that was going around. I've seen this happen time & again to those who are tapering/detoxing, & I know, without a doubt, that our immune system is very much affected by that. ( When I am on a steady, "therapeutic" dosage of opiates I NEVER get sick.) I could feel this flu moving into my lungs & I was afraid it was going to turn into pneumonia again & put me in the hospital....which is what had happened just a few months previously during a very agressive taper attempt. So I went back up to my former dosage & within 2 days my lungs felt clear again. After that scare I decided to just stay at that dosage for a month or so & get feeling as healthy as possible before my next taper attempt. Of course that meant I'd be needing to order kratom again for when my script ran out early & unfortunately, as I & quite a few others have discovered, a period of time on kratom (esp. the extracts!) raises your tolerance so the whole tapering game becomes far more difficult... And then I had a series of family issues over the next few months that was very stressful & ended up costing me every last penny of the last bit of savings I had. But thankfully the issues are now resolved & the pressure is off...BUT, about 5 weeks ago, I was forced to go right back down to my prescribed dosage simply because I didn't have the $ for kratom anymore. It's been very difficult this time because I can't afford the supplements and vit/min that helped so much the last time I did this and I've been feeling all of that crappy paws stuff, the fatigue & lethargy & lack of motivation. Right now I can feel that my immune system is trying to fight something & I'm hoping I don't catch another flu. About the only medicine I have left in my arsenal is cayenne pepper & lemons...yikes! As far as the microdosing with Iboga goes~~~I "felt" that I should leave it be for now. For one thing I don't have much left, & for another there is NO way in the foreseeable future that I could afford to do a flood. And my doctor friend, Riverhaven, who had told me she would come to sit with me...well, she has disappeared in the meantime. It almost feels as if I had this tiny window of opportunity to do a flood last Fall, but because I didn't move fast enough or something, that window has closed again. For now, at least. But it is never far from my thoughts & feelings and there is NO way I'm giving up on this!!! I see that Cal has posted that "Dirty Maintenance" article from Mindvox for April. After my own microdosing experiences I have to say that I agree 100% with the comments Cal made about this method. I found it to be very unpredictable & not at all the way it was described as working for the people in this article,i.e., it wasn't like I could take X amount of Iboga & consequently need X amount less of the opiate. The first time I tried this I noticed that the "peaks & valleys" of my opiate use seemed to be levelled out so that I was able to go for longer in between doses. But I never once felt that the Ibo was in any way "potentiating" the opiate, & the second time I actually felt as if I needed MORE of the opiate! That time, though, the weird thing was that I found it quite easy to lower my opiate dosage a few days AFTER I had stopped microdosing! So, as Cal said, there really are no hard & fast protocols for microdosing and very little info anywhere about this...those of us who try this are truly guinea pigs. Mind you I certainly don't regret having done this....I feel it put me back in touch with thoughts/feelings that the opiates kept a lid on for a long time & I'm certain that the more than 10 weeks that I managed to stay at that much lower opiate dosage (the longest by far of any such attempt I've ever made) was definitely due to that second round of microdosing I'd done previously. But any method using both Iboga & opiates at the same time requires caution. If I try this again, I will use no more than 300mg rb per day & will stop the minute I get any of that jittery, speedy feeling! I would love to hear about any more recent studies or reports from people who have used Iboga this way, because for some of us this might be the only way to benefit from this medicine.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention what happened with the pods! As it turned out, my credit card was refunded what I'd paid to "Poppys pods" and my order was cancelled. My efforts to contact them were in vain & it seems that they do not ship across the border  .  That was such a disappointment....I really felt that with pods my tolerance wouldn't have gone crazy the way it always did with kratom....

I only have a sec but wanted to say thanks for the update and I am real glad to see ya sassy! You are certainly missed when you're not here - but I know how things go - just good to see you around again  BTW I'm puttin an APB a BOLO and a fifty million dollar reward for anyone who comes across Eon!

Yeah, an APB on Eon is needed! It just seems so out of character for him to disappear like that, ya know? I think the last we heard from him he was going on a trip to Mexico....I've wondered if maybe he met the love of his life there, or maybe he's up in the mountains or deserts with some Don Juan reincarnation & part of his "brujo" apprenticeship requires him to stay away from all electronic devices...these are just some of the thoughts I've had about our McKnighty. He was in a very strong & genuine seeking mode last we heard from him so who knows where this might have led him~~~but dammit, it would be nice to know that he's ok! Before he left, he had sent me a big box of the most amazing collection of books which arrived at my place just before Christmas. I know that some of these books had a lot of personal meaning to him & I also understand the state of mind that can motivate a person to start giving away things like that.... I appreciate the welcome back, brightwillow! And things don't seem quite so bleak today...I'm feeling better & going into week 6 on the much reduced dosage so it's all good.

Welcome back claudie_drifts !!! i have called Eon and Gratefuldad and left messages . i have sent them emails too . he was in mexico last time he posted here in the forum . i hope he and gratefuldad are ok. gratefuldad was gonna come out and go camping . i have been worried . mahalo and star wars. - harvey plex

Hey, thanks HP!  I am so glad you're still here~~~I always get something out of your posts. I didn't realize that GD was mia too, that just won't do & I'm glad you're attempting contact! The people on these boards are very real to me & this particular forum has so many "state of the art" humans in it...I define state of the art humans by how many R.P.M.s they have (revelations per minute), lol. And we've got some live ones ones here for sure, & more coming along all the time...

Welcome back Sassy!! :-D And for those wondering, GD is doing ok.. I spoke with him recently and he has some personal issues that need tending to.  He's doing ok and should be in touch soon.

" . . . Well sometimes at night I think I understand. Shadowboxing the apocalypse, wandering the land. . . "

Thanks digital & thanks too for letting us know about GD! "We shadowdance the silent war within, The shadowdance, it never ends..."