Pre-Treatment Aspirin Prophylaxis

"On aspirin, yup, blood thinner. While the risk is small, it's easier for clots to form if you're staying still for prolonged periods." I'm sure you know that thrombosi are sometimes caused by immobile sitting in an airplane for a lengthy period.  Was your brother immobile for any lengthy periods  -- like more than a couple of hours? Unless at least one of the iboga alks is an actual coagulant (I doubt it) the clots were probably there before the treatment began.  That the clots did not move while he was being treated would indicate that there was no immediate release of clots due to iboga therapy. Could the docs tell if the thrombosi were arterial or venous?  If they were arterial, then they were probably due to his hypertension, not iboga. Since only 1/8th of a single 5 grain aspirin tablet is sufficient to provide anti-platelet function, it shouldn't be much of a risk pre-treatment. Have you considered that iboga may have been healing his cardio-vascular system from damage sustained over years?  That the clots were unfortunately released due to a HEALING process that was taking place? Possibly, this event was necessary for your brother to wake up and start taking better care of himself. As for you, my dear friend, your intentions were only the very best.  You were unselfishly doing everything you could to help him.  You were acting from your heart. Don't you dare forget that! Otherwise, I'm sendin' Hulk Hogan and a pickup full of 2x4s over to your house.  (I think he's gettin' tired from hanging around here for so long...) ~eon Thrombosis  --  from  http://www.answers.com/topic/thrombosis-1 Formation of a blood clot (thrombus) in the heart or a blood vessel. Contributing factors include injury to a blood vessel's lining from inflammation (thrombophlebitis) or atherosclerosis, blood flow that is turbulent (e.g., from an aneurysm) or sluggish (e.g., from prolonged bed rest), or coagulation abnormalities (e.g., from high numbers of platelets or excessive fats in the blood). Thrombosis, especially in deep veins of the leg, is a particular danger after major surgery. A thrombus can block blood flow at the point of clot formation or break free to block it elsewhere (embolism). The process of forming a thrombus, which is a solid mass or plug in the living heart or vessels composed of the constituents of the blood. Thrombosis usually occurs in a diseased blood vessel, as a result of arteriosclerosis. The consequences of thrombosis include local obstruction causing both tissue death and hemorrhage. Thrombosis is a significant factor in the death of an individual affected by arteriosclerotic cardiovascular disease, malignancy, and infection. See also Hemorrhage; Infarction. Thrombosis is usually initiated by vascular damage and consequent platelet adhesion and clumping. The process is initiated when platelets specifically adhere to the subendothelial collagen at the points of damage to the endothelium. At the same time that the platelets begin to aggregate and release products that will further promote thrombus formation, the protein factors of the blood, which help to form the insoluble meshwork of the thrombus, become activated. This latter process is known as blood coagulation. The proteins of the coagulation system, through a series of cascading reactions, eventually reach a final common pathway to form fibrin, the insoluble protein that forms the scaffolding of the thrombus. As blood flows by the thrombus, more platelets and fibrin are deposited. Red blood cells and white blood cells become entrapped in the thrombus and are integrated into its structure. See also Fibrinogen. Once a thrombus forms, it can have one of four fates. (1) It may be digested, destroyed, and removed by proteolytic enzymes of the plasminogen-plasmin system. (2) It may continue to propagate itself and eventually occlude the vessel. (3) It may give rise to an embolus. Emboli may cause tissue damage at sites distant from the origin of the thrombus. (4) It may undergo a process known as organization. Organization helps stabilize the thrombus, and it may result in incorporation of a contracted fibrous mass into the vessel wall. See also Embolism. Maintaining good blood flow (especially in the veins) helps prevent thrombosis. Treating hypertension and hypercholesterolemia retards atherosclerosis, which is a major cause of arterial thrombosis. Agents that interfere with platelet function, such as aspirin and fish oils, may help avoid thrombotic episodes. Anticoagulants prevent the formation of fibrin and may also be used to prevent thrombosis. If treatment can be given in the early stages of thrombosis, fibrinolytic therapy, utilizing agents that will help form plasmin, can minimize the tissue damage caused by thrombosis.

Your brother likely got a blood clot from shooting street dope.  That shit you inject in to your veins is impure, and anything can get caught up in a blood vessel and start to form a clot.  I am not gonna say that iboga didn't help it move, as I don't know, but it DID NOT cause the blood clot..  I would bet anything it was an impure dope source that got the clot started...  I also agree with Eon, if you guys believe in God, and I know your bro does, things happen for a reason.  It seems this one has shaken you both up, so are you going to do the right thing?

Cal, you asked " Where is Riverhaven when we need her?" River is on vacation right now, but she will be back in a few days. I'll mention this thread to her so she can jump in with her thoughts about this. My feeling here is that the Iboga has very little if anything to do with blood clots.....that they ( clots ) are simply a greater risk in any situation where a person is more or less immobile for many hours & in particular if they are predisposed to circulatory problems.

"The right thing", Dad?

I agree for sure it could have been bad dope, there was some crap going around at that time...I just had to look further into it. I believed it was a long shot, but still I felt alert when I saw aspirin suggested and had not before.

Sound advice, and thank you  Realizing that I have choices again is still an awesome responsibility, even while it is liberating. I do agree with your analysis about 'bad dope' (its all bad!) but this whole thing has been a curve-ball and caused me to evaluate even familiar things more closely. I am regaining a value regarding life in general that I have ignored or spurned for a long time, and with it comes cascades of deep analytical thinking...this can sometimes translate to 'paranoia'...over-thinking. But especially where this medicine - and my own responsibilities as an advocate and outspoken proponent are concerned - I must leave no stone unturned. I had to question this. I wholeheartedly agree that it is entirely remote - maybe even impossible - that the iboga caused this to happen - but I have also learned, or been made more aware of - specifics that I think should be taken more into consideration. The advice on taking aspirin (if not already contraindicated in a patient) is something that I will include to anyone who asks me about treatment preparations, etc. from now on...at the very least I have found that leaving as little to chance as humanly possible is the best way to do all of this, and I am grateful for that reminder.

I am unsure as to what "on his heart" means-- can you get his records and just copy what they say precisely?  Having a clot "on your heart"-- ie on the surface wouldn't travel up his arteries to his brain to cause the clot that made the stroke.  If the heart clot is sitting in his atrium-- which is what I believe is probably where it is-- it could be due to a heart rhythm disturbance that was temporary and thus now doesn't show on EKG.  I don't think enough people have been followed by continuous EKG during ibogaine administration to tell if it causes temporary heart rhythm problems.  It very well could.  It's not unlike folks who have A fib-- when your heart beats funny you set up odd eddy currents in it and that makes the clot that then travels up to the brain to make the stroke.  Your brother's hypertension may not cause the clot to form-- but pushing against that higher resistance can make his atria more likely to fibrillate and make a clot. As for being more sedentary during a flood or ibogaine-- I sure wasn't-- but then the ibogaine doesn't really cut kratom withdrawal.  I couldn't quit moving my legs due to RLS-- I just had to keep my head still so I didn't vomit.  Which brings me to my next point-- was your brother possibly vomiting and dehydrated?   I sure wouldn't be surprised at all if I hadn't become dehydrated enough to form clots myself during my flood- I had trouble keeping even sips of water down.  Something like increased platelet stickiness can cause clots to form and ibogaine sure could cause that-- it's not well studied enough to know.   I think something simple like aspirin, used prophylactically before taking ibogaine isn't a bad idea-- unless the patient has some contraindication.   Did ibogaine cause your brother's stroke?  I can't answer that question.... it may have, his general state of health may be the problem.   I agreee he's awfully young to stroke out.  If I were him I'd definitely get that blood pressure under control-- even tho the PCP doesn't think it is the cause of the stroke-- over time it can cause way too many complications and it is easy to treat. I know this is the sort of circumstance that will make your brother and you both question your choices from now on-- so I suppose you could call that a "good thing".   I am just glad the stroke was mild enough that your brother gets a second chance-- not everyone does.  Keep us informed on how he's doing and I would really like to hear exactly where that clot is. Sorry I wasn't around the past few weeks and our calls didn't work out timewise-- but I am back for awhile now-we ave another RV trip planned in mid Oct now.

Iboga prolongs the QT wave interval which may be how the clot moved, but I doubt it caused the clot..

Riverhaven wrote: " I don't think enough people have been followed by continuous EKG during ibogaine administration to tell if it causes temporary heart rhythm problems." Well, I can't imagine many people wanting to be monitored by an EKG during their Ibogaine experience~~~but I wonder if that Dr. Debra Mash has done that with any of her patients? Or MD's in some of the other clinics that offer full medical back up? It just seems strange to me that there's still so many things like that we don't know... Anyway, it's good to have you back here, River....I love the way you are able to explain complex medical stuff in a way I can understand it!

They have done the tests.  Dr. Kamlet talks all about it in his presentation that was on ustream and youtube.  It prolongs the QT interval. or the interval between the Q and T peak, which I don't fully understand, but basically it can effect the rhythm of the heart. http://www.ibogatherapyhouse.net/index.php/programs/detoxification-program/detox-application-guide/75 Potential QT Interval Lengthening Drugs Ibogaine may possibly produce a lengthening of the QT interval of the heart rate. The QT interval is the section on an electrocardiogram (ECG, heart test) that indicates the time it takes for the heart’s electrical system to fire an impulse through the ventricles and then recharge itself. A prolonged QT interval may lead to a potentially fatal disorder known as Torsades de Pointes. Having an EKG before ibogaine therapy may indicate whether there is a pre-existing prolonged QT interval, and this information indicates whether you should be treated with ibogaine or not. Many prescription and over the counter medications and well as foods and other substances can prolong the QT interval by interfering with CYP2D6. Thus, all QT prolonging substances should be discontinued for at least four half-lives of that substance, prior to therapy with ibogaine. A half-life is the time it takes for one-half of the original dose of a medication to leave the body. Substances and medications known to potentially prolong the QT interval include: anti-arrhythmics, antibiotics, anti-cancer medications, anti-convulsants, antidepressants, anti-hypertensives, anti-fungals, anti-infectives, anti-malarials, anti-mania medications, anti-nauseants, anti-psychotics, appetite suppressants, bronchodilators, catecholamines, cholinesterase inhibitors, decongestants, diuretics, immunosupressants, muscle relaxants, opiates, sedatives, stimulants, sympathomimetics, and vasoconstrictors. Grapefruit and Quinine (often used as flavor in tonic water) are also strong QT prolonging substances and should not be taken with or before ibogaine. A list of QT prolonging drugs can be found here: http://www.azcert.org http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc0804248 Long-QT Syndrome Induced by the Antiaddiction Drug Ibogaine N Engl J Med 2009; 360:308-309January 15, 2009     Anecdotal evidence suggests that ibogaine alleviates drug craving and relapse of drug use in humans, as has been confirmed for animals.1 Ibogaine is currently used as an antiaddiction drug in alternative medicine. In 1993, the Food and Drug Administration approved a clinical trial in humans to study those effects. The National Institute on Drug Abuse decided not to fund this study because of safety issues.2,3     Ibogaine is a naturally occurring alkaloid with hallucinogenic and psychedelic effects, derived from the bark of the root of the West African Tabernanthe iboga plant and is used in Gabonian initiation ceremonies. At least 11 sudden deaths were described after ibogaine use, in which the cause of death remained unclear even after autopsy.4 It was hypothesized that ibogaine might dysregulate the autonomic nervous system, causing sudden death.5     A 31-year-old American woman was admitted to our emergency department because of a seizure-like attack after she had taken a single dose of 3.5 g of ibogaine 15% (usual dose, 2 to 6 g). She had not taken any other drugs or alcohol concurrently with the ibogaine. Her medical history was unremarkable, and there was no family history of cardiac-rhythm abnormalities. Besides nausea, she had no specific symptoms to report. She had come to the Netherlands to receive ibogaine as an alternative medicine for treatment-resistant alcohol addiction.     Electrocardiography showed a severe prolonged QT interval of 548 msec (QT interval corrected for the heart rate, 616 msec) and ventricular tachyarrhythmias during prolonged monitoring (Figure 1Figure 1Electrocardiogram of the Patient, Showing Ventricular Tachyarrhythmias and a Prolonged QT Interval.). Laboratory findings revealed mild hypomagnesemia (magnesium level, 0.49 mmol per liter [1.2 mg per deciliter]; reference range, 0.70 to 1.00 [1.7 to 2.4]), hypokalemia (potassium level, 3.2 mmol per liter [12.5 mg per deciliter]; reference range, 3.8 to 5.0 [14.9 to 19.5]), and a normal serum osmolal gap (3.1 mOsm per kilogram; reference value, <10). Despite rapid correction of the electrolyte levels, the QT interval remained prolonged. During admission to the intensive care unit, with no further doses of ibogaine given, the QT interval normalized at 42 hours after presentation. The patient was subsequently discharged, in good condition.     In this case, ibogaine use was associated with severe lengthening of the QT interval and ventricular tachyarrhythmias, which normalized after 42 hours. These findings are suggestive of a causal relation. The electrolyte imbalance may also have played a role. The previously described sudden deaths may thus have been caused by cardiac-rhythm abnormalities induced by QT-interval lengthening, ventricular tachyarrhythmias, or both.     At the doses currently used, ibogaine can lead to serious cardiac-rhythm abnormalities. The use and possible future trials of the drug should be permitted only under strict medical observation and continuous electrocardiographic monitoring.     Dianne W.M. Hoelen M.D.     Wilko Spiering M.D., Ph.D.     Gerlof D. Valk M.D., Ph.D.     University Medical Center Utrecht, 3584 CX Utrecht, the Netherlands     g.d.valk@umcutrecht.nl

Thanks GD-- that was really helpful and saved me-- who is still doing laundry from her trip-- from finding these.  One thing that is truly scary is doing a pre-ibogaine EKG won't help at all if ibogaine itself causes the QT interval prolongation.  Certainly people with one already shouldn't take it-- but how do you tell if you are one who it will happen to from the ibogaine??  You don't.... I can say tho that ventricular rhythm problems aren't the ones that produce clots--it's the atrium beating oddly that does that.  The ventricles don't have blood sitting around in them- they push out blood so forcefully it empties with each beat.  However, the atria don't necessarily empty and so are prone to those eddy currents I talked about that can cause a clot to form-- that clot then goes to the ventricles and gets forcefully pumped out-- to wherever the arterial system goes.  And thus you get a stroke...  So if QT prolongation mostly causes the ventricles to not beat correctly- it wouldn't explain the stroke in Cal's brother. Before EKG machines existed-- docs relied on your wrist pulse and it is certainly possible to add to a sitter's responsibility to sit and follow someone's wrist pulse for a bit each hour.  You may pick up a problem that simple way, sans expensive EKG machine.  Also-- Tia's idea to give aspirin beforehand will help with preventing clots-- it won't help rhythm disturbances tho.  That comprehensive list of things that do prolong the QT interval should be handed out with every dose of ibogaine as things to avoid before you take ibogaine.  It's definitely a frightening thing-- heart problems, sudden death and our beloved ibogaine.

Ibogaine causes everyone's QT wave to prolong, and it can be eased by taking the dose gradually over a longer period, rather than taking a whopping dose of HCl.  That likely is the reason most deaths occur in medical facilities, and not with slower administered bark or TA, in the jungle with wood, or a bedroom with TA..  Or that is my guess, anyways..

Well I couldn't find anything saying that ibogaine always prolongs QT-- but I did find that taking it in smaller,divided doses didn't help.  Some of the fatalities are after relatively small doses-- here's a quote from a medical journal paper:  These fatalities occurred in most cases several days after ingestion or following the intake of very small doses. There is no conclusive explanation at the present time for these deaths. It could explain poor Cal's brother's experience with the stroke, several days after microdosing with ibogaine.  Which does make the thought of people playing with this in their bedrooms with their girlfriend with no medical training as a sitter really scary.  No one wants to die trying to get rid of the monkey off our backs.  And doing a pre-ibogaine EKG won't mean much if the ibogaine itself is going to cause heart troubles days after you dose it whether you had a pre-existing condition or not.  Ughhhh....  As someone who'd like to set up a clinic-- it's becoming more difficult to decide what is the requisite monitoring and how long do you monitor???  I am really questioning the laisse faire attitude a lot of addicts have to ibogaine-- it's like we all feel invincible if we tolerated and lived thru an addiction- but we aren't.

I don't have lots of scientific data, I only am going by what I thought from Dr. Kamlets explanation, and the explanation given by people who use a different dosing protocol than most medical facilities.  For me to be sure, I'd need to perform the tests myself and see how patients reacted.  I am pretty sure the QT prolonging happens to everyone, it's just the degree that varies, and I am pretty sure that gradually working your way up to the dose over several hours causes a less drastic shock to the system then when giving a full dose all at once..  Might ask on the treatment email list, to see if Dr. Kamlet can give the specific answers everyone wants.  BTW, I think people worry way too much about iboga dosing.  I eat iboga like I'd eat LSD or mushrooms, and it hasn't given me any reason to fear it.  People with severely polluted bodies and all sorts of medical problems should be cautious, but for the average person, I think iboga is very safe.  I think everyone who hasn't flooded worries way more than anyone who has..

Well, I flooded and at the end I was left with this horrible pain over my kidneys-- I think the enforced dehydration from the flood sent me into a bit of kidney failure.  It kept me on darvocets after my flood for awhile and eventually led me back to kratom.  I am wondering if maybe it might not be a good idea to start an IV with fluids in people puking all over.  I know some people don't puke-- and so don't need it... just like some people might not prolong their QT long enough to cause a problem.  It's looking like a really individual thing to me-- who needs what?  Be it pre-ibogaine aspirin, an IV to keep up hyrdration, an EKG during the flood to watch for heart problems.... I am curious-- has anyone done a flood with Dr. Mash?  What's her protocol?  What does she monitor?

Maybe the pain was your kidneys being flushed clean of toxins?  Sometimes a good cleaning doesn't feel all warm and cozy..  I am pretty sure kidney failure would have you dead pretty quick..  How did flooding dehydrate you badly, did you throw up a whole lot?  I did, and I think Sara worried even a bit with me puking so much, but I came through okay..  Also, did you hydrate properly the days leading up to your flood?  That is recommended nearly everywhere..

I was with Sara also-- and it wasn't so much the vomiting-- which I did profusely-- I worried her in that I couldn't even keep sips of water down.  I naturally am a water drinker- so I did go into it fairly well hydrated.  You'd be surprised how long renal failure takes to kill you-- it's one of those illnesses that just makes you feel awful for a good long time-- and that's how I felt.  I've done renal failure in the past while stuck on NSAID's-- and swelled up in my legs, got back pain-- with increased lab tests for you kidney.  Based on that personal experience I am fairly sure I went into a bit of kidney failure and I just bet I am not alone in it.  People don't realize how easy it is to kill off your kidneys....I am fine now- I've had labs since-- but it took a good 4 months after the flood to get back to normal.

River, I'm wondering why you haven't contacted Mash, Kamlet, Alper, and all the clinic heads. If you want to know what the clinics and docs do, ask the clinics and docs. It seems you are here arguing with (frikkin intelligent) laypeople over med details, and asking us about the 'professionals'. Just take it to the source if it's honestly important to you. Yes clinics use IVs for non stop vomit, but why not just ask someone who works at a clinic? Don't forget Sandra K in Canada. They're all just people, e, just like you. Not a licensed professional, Tia

Sara kept bringing me tea to drink, I think, but I didn't want anything..  I think that is what worried her, because I didn't want to drink anything..  I am not sure, what could have happened to you, but perhaps your body was so polluted with man made drugs, that the total eradication of them was very difficult for your body to handle..  Since you are still here, it seems you made it through.  Perhaps low dosing again, until you can get comfortable enough to flood, will help ease your body into it..  I truly think a proper flood is needed for complete healing, but I understand you must be cautious.  Hope you can figure out what you need to make you feel better..

Hi all, On my last tx I went w/o water for 36 hrs.  I was vomiting for about 22 hours.  I switched to ice chips for 36 hours and the vomiting stopped.  It was an ordeal to say the least.  I can not understand why someone would want to take it over and over.  I can see a little on a semi daily basis as a med but it was an ordeal that I really don't want to repeat.  But then I am sensitive to it.  Then I read stories of how others are fine in two days and going for walks.  But then I also had some withdrawal.  I just have a feeling that I should never take more than 1.5gm of Ibo.  I believe if I did more it would do me in.  I lost my lunch and saw four blue lights by the puke basket and sponge bob on the ceiling and laid down and my eyes closed.  I really don't know how long I was 'out' for but when I came to the sounds and smells were strong.  I was buzzing for a week or more.  As for spiritual aspects I forget most of the Experience and remember just a fraction of it.  I guess if your not puking drink all you want but if your puking 22 hrs after taking it it can be rough on the system, then doing another 36 hrs w/o water.  A nice IV or several would be nice but in a way it would almost be like pulling a Michael Jackson.  If you think your going to need IV bags you would be better off going to a hospital you may be in worse shape than you think.  When your buzzing from Ibo you may not make intelligent decisions.  But don't get me wrong if I was able to do IV bags I would have.  It's just that I could not stand up or think all that well.  Sometime you can tough it out but that can also be dangerous.  I could almost see myself saying Hmmm, I think I'm having a heart attack, I'll wait and see if it goes away.  Ibo is great but it is not a fun drug.  Of course that's just me.  If things had gotten any worse I may of went to the hospital, I mean how do you know when to go, specially on Ibo?  My throat was raw and my stomach in knots how much longer should I wait?  Should I wait until there is permanent damage?  How long does it take to make the damage permanent?  But the ice chips saved me.  The Experience was medium intense and of course bizarre and lasted close to two weeks, it also was an ordeal. Best,  cinderpath

Yes, Roy, an intense ibogaine experience for sure.  And GD-- I know I concerned Sara too-- I by no means meant to disparage her care-- she tried to get stuff in me- I'd turn my head after sipping her tea and up it came.  It was all the ataxia.    What I loved most about being in Sara's house was feeling like I was one of her "little ones" to be taken care of.  It was nurturing and I needed that most of all.  I wouldn't trade that experience for being in a "sterile clinic".  I felt like "Mom" was taking care of me.  I don't understand your hostility Tia.  I was merely asking if anyone here went to a clinic run by Dr. Mash.  I wouldn't presume to bug the heck out of one of these clinic administrators until I was actually ready to set up a clinic of my own.  But you can learn a lot from people who got their flood in those clinics.  That's all I was asking for-- I wasn't arguing , debating or debasing-- in fact I was just free thinking as to what happened to me-- that back pain and possible kidney problems than I was challenging anyone on here-- trying to put together a package to offer addicts that covers everything.  That's all... if you saw it as an attack to you or your beliefs-- sorry.... and umm... don't expect any call from me... I don't like getting yelled at.

River - my brother's discharge summary indicated a 'small' clot in the left ventricle - which you say, and my brother (RN) agrees is uncommon...we don't really know what the cause is. I didn't mean to scare anyone about ibogaine, at all. It's just that this was vexing me and I had to look deeper into it. I kept asking myself what I could look at, trying to see if there was anything at all that may account for such a sucker-punch. While I agree that the ibogaine very probably did not cause any clots, I simply am not sure if it played any part in moving the thing or not. Whatever the case may be, I still think ibogaine is a safe medicine to take, and my brother agrees. This could all be circumstantial - and very likely is - but it was starting to keep me up at night wondering. Let's face it - drug addicts aren't winning blue ribbons for their health, and this guy was more hardcore than most. It never hurts to look at all the options, I think it is incumbent on anyone seriously considering treatment to do so - but again, this does not change my perspective on ibogaine treatment being a reasonable endeavor. The risks are manageable, and with some education and forethought can be mitigated to almost zilch. Maybe this entire episode was only serving as a wakeup call for me and him...it sure as shit could have been worse. Thank God it wasn't. We would not have known there even WAS a clot if this minor stroke did not alert us to it, it could have been something which grew unnoticed until it was large enough to be fatal under different circumstances. The only reason at all that I even considered looking into a possible ibogaine connection is that it had only been a week or so since he's microdosed (dirty maintenance with low doses of hydrocodone) and I wanted to look at any possibilities, however unpalatable. Ibogaine should not be considered to be expressly implicated in this situation - this is only a discussion about what little information I could dig up on the subject. I know it has been an emotional time for us and try not to let that influence my objectivity. Still, this thread has turned in to a good discussion and at least I know now that aspirin is being recommended before treatments and will incorporate that into any personal suggestions I may make to people. Thanks to all ~ Cal

Hi brightwillow, You said something like the blood clot was on the left side of his heart.  I think if he had a clot there it would move with or without the Ibo.  Also, you would think if the Ibo had anything to do with it it would not of taken a week.  But I really do not know that much on the subject.  You did what you think is best, I hope your not blaming yourself or feeling guilt or anything.  Is it possible an aspirin could also cause the clot to move?  Ida know, have to ask someone who know more than me. Best,  cinderpath

Thanks cinderpath. Hindsight is 20/20 they say, and after digging in to all of this I maintain that iboga is NOT implicated, I just needed to look closer at the possibility and open this for discussion with you guys. I appreciate all the replies and ya'lls concern for my family - I love you guys!

hello all... i know i joined this site and havent really been on board.  sorry for that.  as most of you know i am calaquendi's brother and had a stroke recently.  i have heard much about your thoughts and prayers and thank you all.  i am faring better physically than i thought i would.  fine motor skills  need help and feeling heavy on the left side but i can once again bathe myself and button my own pants, oh the little things!  mostly i would like to request prayers for my peace of mind and the peace of mind of my family...been a rough ride.  the fear of another, still greater stroke is my nearly constant companion.  by all accounts im making good progress and fine motor skills are the last to return.  this was quite unexpected and turned several worlds upright, also put alot in perspective.  a sidenote:  my doctor is fully aware of my sedentary history and believes this has nothing to do with it,plenty of u guys are stroke free and were dopeheads,yes?  for some genetic reason i have naturally thick blood and it does what thick blood does: clot.  i'm now wearing a piece of said clot in my brain stem...praise God i am right handed.  i want it to be clear, regarding discussion around aspirin prophylaxis, i do not think for one second that my previous iboga experience has anything at all to do with this freak occurrence.  if that were so no one would be using iboga for any reason. that would be crazier than me using heroin in the first place! again i'd like  to request prayers for myself and my family. my addict brain tells me that i am the only person facing real adversity and that everyone else is happy and healthy...too much television! thank you and God bless us all!!!

Hey River. On the reread, that did sound hostile. My apologies for that, I was very curt. No worries on not calling, or calling. It is what it is. Big, Big love to you, Brother. You have been in my thoughts and prayers. Cal, too. The enormity of what you are going through is not lost on me, and I really like hearing your perspective. Hug, hug, hug. Tia

And on the third read, it's very hostile. I have some looking at myself to do. I have been frustrated here on the forum with all the medical focus, focus on drugs and drug taking, on machines and medical procedures. In this, I haven't been allowing that people are on their own path, and the way I see things is not the best way, but the best way for me. I think there is much to be learned by looking at myself, looking in. Why am I frustrated that people want to talk endlessly about which drugs to take and in what quantity? Why does it bother me, all this talk? Everyone approaches evolution at their own pace, on their own road. So, river, more completely, I apologize for hurting you with my words due to not addressing my overall frustrations with the forum. I'm still learning. Tia

Good to see you here, Brother! I've thought about you often because I know how frightening a stroke can be, even a relatively minor one. I had a stroke while going through methadone withdrawals & even though it was a very brief one, I still don't have the fine motor control I used to have in my right hand, even after nearly 3 years now. Mind you, I'm speaking of extremely fine motor control, like the kind I need to do some of the graphics & wood carving I love to do....for the most part I'm back to normal. In some ways better because I've become more committed to a better diet & taking my supplements regularly. Sometimes it just takes a scare like that for us to start treating ourselves with more respect....& you sound as if you're doing well now too. Hope you're taking plenty of EFA's & Gingko! Your fine motor control will keep on improving. I will keep you & your family in my prayers.....I understand how something like this can turn your world upside down & make you fearful of another episode. I lived with that fear for a long time & it made my fear of opiate withdrawals just that much deeper. But as you feel yourself getting stronger, Brother, those fears will begin to fade until the stroke becomes just another memory...just another something that happened in the past. I wish you good health and peace of mind.

http://www.ibogaine.desk.nl/zerzion.ppt Slides #64 and #66 can be of interest about results of EKG after ibogaine administration and about a case of death caused by aortic blood clot 25 days later....

Hmm I'm having trouble reading that link, maybe my skills are lacking, or I need some other program to view it (it was trying to use Adobe or some shit but wouldn't read) - I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer  PS - welcome to the board nko!

Very interesting, thanks for posting!