ready to drop the subxone

Nice to hear you have that option.  I've considered doing this in Mexico due to the cost of a traditional medical setting.  Sometimes you have to do what you have to do, mushroom!  I wish you well.

Nice to 'see' you here, mushroom man! Welcome! love and brussel sprouts, Tia

Welcome bravemeadow82! Thanks for being here. I'd like to ask a few questions of you - have you any idea when you are planning to this? I ask because there are some considerations regarding Suboxone, it's one of the longer lasting opiods and so more time away from from it is recommended - ideally 24 hours or more in my opinion. Suboxone (as you know) does not inebriate like methadone and so it can be tricky to gauge...my point is please make sure you and your wife are in acute withdrawal. Go as long as you can stand it before you test dose. Are you both planning to 'go' at the same time? How many sitters have you and are they knowledgeable in emergency care? I do not want to frighten you, in fact I did iboga myself, the whole shebang - but my brother was here who's an RN, and my best friend sat also (he's an EMT)...I'm all for DIY especially when the costs are so high and logistical issues present - does your sitter know about this medicine? I don't mean to come across like I'm raking you, I hope you guys find the means to a healthy and fruitful session. Please stick around man, nice to have you!! Peas ~Cal

As a fellow midworsterner, I bid you WELCOME! I absolutely PROMISE to NEVER use the word "SAUTéED" in your esteemed presents. Yer PAL and FELLOW SUFERER, Eon McKnightgown, The InCorrigable

I am hoping to do this sometime before the new year, but that is just the intention I'm putting out there. We are both on very small doses; around 1mg per day. I know it may seem small, but I do understand how long acting suboxone is and how it builds up in your system. We do have one good friend who has EMT training. He agreed to do it for us, but he is kind of flakey and I doubt we could get him to come on a trip to Canada with us which is the plan right now. We do have other good friends who I would trust and who have very good common sense, if not medical training.

Mr. Mushroom; Though I do not need ethanolic fuel to be silly, I did indeed have some under my belt when I made the last post.  Allow me to be totally serious for a while. 1    Welcome to the Forum2     I am neither a RN nor EMT, but I do have certain medically related talents and certain non-medical experience  (ahem) that could prove of value to you two.  However, I have never used Iboga/Ibogaine.  It is my intent to do so, however.3     If you have the need, I will be willing to discuss acting as a sitter for you (I live in WI).4     The only substances that I currently could not do without for a day (or a week) are anti-depressants and nicotene.  The ADs should not be a problem and I can get by on oral tobacco with an occaisional smoke outside.5     I have spent several summers, many years ago, on 3-week canoe trips in the Canadian wilderness.  On two of those, I was the guide for groups of high-school boys. That last one was not, perhaps, totally neccessary, but I just had to include it anyway.  It's not something I generally put in my resume. If you wish to discuss this further, let me know. Best wishes and good luck in your healing journey! guenevere_walks PS  --  I wasn't sure if you already have a sitter lined up from your post.  If so  --  nevermind that part.  The Welcome & good wishes remain in any case.  ~e

An EKG is still totally advisable, the problem created by prolonged qt is not something that is a obvious defect in a person.  Athletes can go their whole lives without knowing it!  This is because the problem is when the blood pressure is low, the electrical impulses in the exit valves of the heart start to "backfire" and blood backs up into the heart and your heart fails on you.   To do you best to protect the validity of this medicine in the eyes of our culture and your own life I'd make sure you have been cleared for at least this problem. There are also certain medications that can complicate matters even worse. Never mind bupernorphine is the trickiest of the opioids to detox from, knowing how much to use in the flood and then judging by symptoms how much to give and when for fallowing doses is not easy being ibogaine fatigue and opiate faigue mimic one another but are not the same by far and being able to tell the difference is very important in treating someone.  There is also the matter of knowing how long to wait after your last dose of opiates before you take the ibogaine, not just due to potentiated overdose issues but because if you don't wait long enough the ibogaine is also not able to work to it's utmost potential. It is also important to know what to do when a person pukes their dose, how much more to give them and what to use to help them keep the medication down. Understanding this stuff is very important when using ibogaine, it's very different from other mind altering chemicals and can really scare the crap out of an unexperienced sitter, causing for unneeded drama.  Or the opposite can occur and you won't get the medical help that is needed when it's needed.

While this is discouraging, I think a dose of reality is important and I thank you for that. I was advised by one treatment center to get back on heroin for a few weeks before treatment since it is much easier for iboga to deal with. As funny as it may seem this is not an attractive option to me. I haven't done heroin in two years, and have not done it habitually in many years. Nevermind the fact that I have long since lost touch with my old connections. Even if I did want to get back into it, it can be a slippery slope. I am confident that I will find an experienced sitter, or one will find me. The intention is out there.

Good points Psychenaut! Thanks for sharing    mushroom - I am glad to see your attitude is so open and honest. In your post you stated that a provider advised you to "get back on heroin" for a couple of weeks prior to iboga treatment...this isn't as odd as it sounds, although I personally would not advise someone to take heroin (specifically) - it IS advisable, if not prudent, to try to switch to a shorter acting opiate for at least a week. Suboxone is very tricky, I would advise someone on methadone likewise. The long duration of buprenorphine and methadone make the amount of iboga/ibogaine necessary for withdrawal attenuation more difficult to gauge...though it certainly can be done, why not make things 'easier' if one can? Perhaps you can find someone to prescribe hydrocodone or even oxycodone...something along those lines? I read a report about a man in the UK on Suboxone telling his physician of his plans to kick opiates with ibogaine, and his doctor prescribed morphine to him for a week or two before hand, to mitigate any potential difficulties that would present themselves in getting off buprenorphine. Maybe some of the 'complications' of Suboxone come from it's being an agonist/antagonist? The naloxone in it may be one area of difficulty to negotiate? I know how hard it is to get a doctor to listen to you in the States - you'll never find one (probably) willing to help you with plans to 'heal yourself' especially with a drug that's a schedule one, I don't think any physician would even sign off on such an attempt, much less switch a prescription for you. Maybe you could fake a back injury and go to an ER to find something? The point is - it will certainly be advantageous to at least try to roll over to a shorter acting, semi-synthetic opiate, and it shouldn't be too hard on you physically if you're on a small enough dose of Suboxone. Best of luck to you and your wife!

Dear bravemeadow82 and Forum Members; First, let me address my offer to act as sitter.  It was not a SUGGESTION that you approach the experience lightly or carelessly.  You are not now risking your life 2 or 3 times daily by injecting an unknown quantity of an unknown substance  --  no reason to risk your life over quitting buprenorphine.  Or is there? The advice you received from Psychenaut and Cal is right-on.  It was given with love, out of compassion for you two.  The medical advice they gave is the best, I believe.  No one wants to see you die in the midst of your sincere efforts to heal yourself! However, we all know (or at least suspect) that during an Iboga experience, it is possible for your spirit to leave your body permanently  --  even if surrounded by a top-notch medical team and all the best high-tech gadgets known. Would some of the power of Iboga be lost if you could be guaranteed that you wouldn't die?  Maybe. Is it more likely that you will die if you are obsessed by fears and worry over death?  Probably. I personally think that Tim Leary's advice regarding set and setting be considered of equal importance to medical issues.  This is, after all, a psychedelic  --  mind manifesting  -- experience.  An experience in which the mind heals itself.  While fear cannot be completely eliminated, it should not be magnified and dwelt upon.  It should not prevent the important work from being done. Fear of spending the rest of your life in thrall to some chemical may have helped you to get to where you are at. I know that the fear of spending the rest of my life with anxiety, depression, ignorance and a spectrum of chemicals that help me to 'get-by' is driving my behavior at this time. I can visualize myself clad in armor, shield in my left hand and a sword in my right.  I am stepping onto the floor of the Colosseum.  As I raise my sword high, I shout:      "Iboga, we who are about to die salute you!" That may be a bit melodramatic for your tastes, but you probably get what I am trying to say. Probably not the type of thing one would want his/her sitter to be saying...  Leastways, anyone with half a brain... But my offer still stands.  Should you be unable to find an acceptible sitter and still want to proceed with this lunacy, let me know.  I understand the risks to myself that such an event would pose.  I'm thinking that you now know the risks to yourselves.  I'll not bring it up again to you. Peace & Love & Life, guenevere_walks From "Plants of the Gods": "Iboga is intimately associated with death:  the plant is frequently anthropomorphised as a supernatural being, a "generic ancestor," which can so highly value or despise an individual that it can carry him away to the realm of the dead."

I wasn't really saying that in regards to anyone.  I just read that he was going to try to have a family member with no knowledge of detox with ibogaine and responded to that with precaution.   Though I do not hold iboga with much of the new age attitude of many other people I do believe it is a great tool to help a person see their reflection with and to regurgitate the negative emotions within them and in turn the person left feeling clean and centered.   I've had interesting experiences with ibogaine floods and boosters ranging from Mayan priest munching on a human shin muscle while telling me about how the universe acts as a divine cannibal to little black spirit people harvesting colored energy fuzz dots from a trans-dimensional jungle realm and telling me that they will only harvest a soul if it's determined to remain stagnant in it's conscious evolution, otherwise it's left to continue learning.  As far as I'm concerned these are beliefs in my own subconscious playing themselves out in the minds infinitely creative ways.  But others can take it for what they will.   I am a firm believer in self medicating and I am all for the well informed invidual and those helping them taking the risks they feel are worth taking with each other in this life. (woo, now that is a run on sentence) I wasn't trying to put you down or call you incapable, that's for you and those you chose to help to decide not me. Do I get a Tiara yet big boy?

I'd also like to mention that through the use of psychedelics, soul searching and Ibogaine I've come to terms with death on many levels.  It's not so much that I'd have a problem dieing myself within the experience as I wouldn't like to leave this world with my last gift being MY DEAD BODY in a bed that the sitter has to deal with and a angry and hurt family that isn't willing to let go so they lash out at the sitter. It is mainly for this reason that I myself want to make sure I've left everyone in the best position possible.. so just in case that 1 in 350 chance I pass away, I haven't left them screwed.  So taking precautions isn't such a bad thing IMHO.

Was I sounding defensive?  I expect that I probably was.  I know that my first feelings were defensive. But, really, what could I expect?  Coming out of left-field with an offer like some used-car or insurance salesman.  The first thing I would probably think is "What's his angle?" or "How's he looking to make a profit on this?" And I do wholeheartedly agree that anyone using a large dose should have a person capable of emergency aid close at hand. I do wholeheartedly agree that this is some serious business.  As serious as a heart-attack. What would bother me is if my post came off as ONLY defensive.  I, too, am struggling with illness.  I, too, have wondered if risking death to heal myself is worth it.  I, too, am scared of death.  I, too, am looking for the way. Since denial is one of the culprits of my current problems, I am trying to be truthful and meet my issues head-on. Since low self esteem has caused so much loss in my life, I am trying to stop denigrating myself and my efforts. I want to look Death in the eyes and hear him say "Hey, you're alright by me." I'd like to look into my own eyes and say the same thing  --  and really mean it. Being defensive doan cut no shit with Death. As for the Tiara, Tia's the only one can hand them out.  The best I can do is put in a good word or two on your behalf... Thanks for your thoughts and for listening, guenevere_walks PS  --   What is proper first aid for ibogaine poisoning?  I'm thinking activated carbon and emesis would only be valuable up to a couple of hours after ingestion.  If hypotension is common, O2 would be good to have on-hand.  Are those who are intoxicated with Iboga able to sit up or kneel when blowing chunks?  Do people on high doses get excited, scared, confrontational, violent or what?  Should restraints be nearby?  How about duct tape?  (Don't laugh, duct tape works great, it's easy to apply and causes little pain/damage to the tape-ee.)            ~eon PPS  --  I would love to see a Forum Topic, written by someone experienced and having a medical background, with the purpose of educating potential sitters.  Tips from one (a psychiatric technician, e.g.) who has worked with people in emotional or frightening circumstances could should be included.        ~e

Tia is handing out Tiaras to the fabulous. Only requirement is to embrace your inner queen/princess with panache. Easier said than done, though. I'm much more comfy with my inner toad. Hypertension is common initially with dosing. My bestest girlfriend is thinking of taking Iboga, but I can't help her, she should go medical. Her BP is very high, even with meds, and I keep thinking she'd just *pop* if given Iboga. I would be permanently damaged if I had a hand in that. Sitting up or kneeling while hurling, yes, possible. More comfy for me was leaning over the side of my bed and dangling my head in the bucket. Stil, aspirating vomit can be an issue, and that's another reason a sitter should be mindful, mindful. "Do people on high doses get excited, scared, confrontational, violent or what?  Should restraints be nearby?  How about duct tape?" Coming onto Iboga, I was SUPER agitated and very bitchy in a bark at you for breathing too loud way. But I was not violent in any way. After you go 'under' on a high dose, I can't see how anyone could be violent. First, it's difficult to move. Second, you won't want to move. Post Iboga, I've heard of a range of reactions, up to and including rare violence. It's my opinion these are emotions uncovered by Iboga that are projected onto whoever is around. I would not think restraints would be necessary. I had a shouting match with dear husband afterword, raged at him for ruining my experience (lol) by coming in too many times. He obviously didn't care about me, blah, blah. That passed. I feel like I should say again that there are so many, many people with more experience than I, but I don't speak unless I am confident in what I say. There are 'techniques' for dealing with projected rage and fear, but best tailored to the individual. (Tia was a psych tech for many years, and worked in rehabs, state mental institutions, and state facilities for the developmentally disabled) Happy All Hallows Eve!!! Send your dead friends and relatives some good thoughts!!!! Love and thin veils, T

Well, it looks like we found a good provider with lots of experience a little bit closer to home than we had expected. Now it's just a money matter. I am hoping to report back here very soon that I am drug free.

That's great news my man!!! Thank you for sharing - would love to hear how things line up for you guys and look forward to seeing you around. Best of luck and many blessings...

Intention is everything! I am So Happy for you, and looking forward to hearing lots more! YAY!!!!! I have a friend in NY who wants off suboxone, I will be very interested to hear how it goes for you, if you care to post about it! Love and vegetables, Tia

So this means you are well aware that Even Debora Nash has come to the conclussion that giving people with depressive/bi-polar/schizo and schizo-affective disorder etc. is not advisable due to the ridged and fragile ego structures they people tenuously grasp reality with?

sunnyfox, What? Who are you addressing? I know what Mash says, I know what lots of people say, from research and private conversations. I think there has not been enough discussion about how Ibo helps mental disorders. To not give Ibo to someone depressed, wtf? Maybe you were being facetious and I misread. What do you think about the studies reported in the book Beal helped write, The Ibogaine Story, on brainwaves, REM, post REM and regulation and schizophrenics? Very promising, to me. Talk soon, T

What do you feel you'd have to have in place to detox someone off the meds they are currently on, and to handle the disasociation and neediness that tends to come out of the broken persona... and then to get them to understand they their happiness and contentment is not souly the responcibility of others changing to suit their conditions. You can talk till your blue in the face but that doesn't seal the deal that a person will internalize it.  Ibogaine can be great for depression but I've also seen it do absolutely nothing... anyone potentially looking for it to "fix them" needs to be fully aware of that possiblity. That's all I'm saying....  to risk ones life (no matter how small the risk) to achieve very iffy results must be stated clearly.  It's the same with ayahuasca, LSD and Mescaline, rarely do people understand the objective nature of the visionary experience, some people just believe some external force (the drug or a "demon" was tormenting them and they are once again a victim chancing escape by blaming the person that didn't give them just what they wanted during the experience or the world in general for not being their idea of perfect... This kind of therapy can take many doses and it must be done by someone that knows the nooks and cranies of the perceptually malleable entheogenic experience.  In most cases the persons symptoms while in the experience are going to become much worse, potentially putting them in a paniced state at the cross roads of spiritual life or death.  It can take a lot of energy and patience ontop of wisdom to assist in these therapies. Psycho-spiritual seekers tend to be a little different from the sort of person that wares their wounds as badges of identity.

"What do you feel you'd have to have in place to detox someone off the meds they are currently on, and to handle the disasociation and neediness that tends to come out of the broken persona... and then to get them to understand they their happiness and contentment is not souly the responcibility of others changing to suit their conditions." What meds? Hypothetical people on hypothetical meds? I know some fine mentally ill people;) on no meds. I was depressed when I took Ibo, myself, and on no meds. What would it take to detox someone? Of course that would depend on the meds, wouldn't it. Lithium is different than Paxil is different than Depakote is different than SAMe. To handle the dissociation and neediness, that would be individual for each person as well, of course. I do good in a mothering and supportive role, I am also a fine witness for deaths and pain. But my style is not the best for all. The years and years I spent working mental health and rehab have taught me that much as I'd like to save everyone, not only is it not my job, but I am not the right one for some. Fancy that. I also agree that talking til one is blue is no guarantee that the intended will internalize. That is why I think it is such a good, good idea to have a therapy that causes one to move a bit and emote. Like rolfing, etc.Postures are good, paying attention to the body. Doing active things instead of passively talking/listening. I understand you are challenging me to consider the difficulties. Thank you for that. What did you think of those studies? They were toward the end of the book. Made me darn excited, mostly because there is so little info around on mental health and ibo. Sorry to highjack your thread, Mushroom!!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transactional_analysis If someone want's to openly look at themselves and their perceptions and, is focused on truth instead of greedy for the happy high, I'm more than happy to work with them in the context of psycho-spiritual work. If this is not the case I'm not up for it being these cats are always looking for someone or something other than themselves to fix them.  Your sympathetic attention and constant reaffirming reaction regarding their negative and victimized headspace becomes their new dependency. I was assuming you were talking about people with chronic depression or patients in a serious enough issue where they are willing to risk their existence to look at themselves.  I'd expect most people in that state to be on some pharmaceutical, prescribed by a Dr. or self medicating.  Hell, if you're just talking about people with an internal struggle going on you'll be more than happy treating addicts being most all of them have that to a pretty intense degree.

I would like to add a bit of my own research on Iboga to your discussion.  From my observations, the dopamine connection to depression and anxiety has not been well researched and there are NO current psychiatric medications that target the dopaminergic system. Why?  Because dopamine is associated with drugs of abuse:  heroin, coke, meth.  From the FDA's perspective, no drug that enhances dopamine will ever be approved due to the possibility of abuse (same as opiate receptors). Too bad.  Our Western society has a real bad attitude about pleasure.  If it feels good it's either illegal or fattening, right? Walk down the street.  How many are frowning?  How many are smiling? Here are two scientific papers that examine the long-term regrowth of domaninergic cells in the brain as a result of ibogaine therapy:     http://www.jneurosci.org/cgi/content/full/25/3/619     http://www.fasebj.org/cgi/content/full/20/13/2420 For the most part, those papers are tough to read.  Just skip to the "Discussion"  and "Conclusions" sections at the ends. They are saying that ibogaine restarts long term neural growth.  One paper even suggests that it might be of benefit in Parkinson's. In my opinion, Western society in general has a "broken persona".  However, people rarely go to their doctor and ask for antidepressants when they are happy.  The anxiety of modern life, the UNRESOLVABLE anxiety of modern life, has resulted in an epidemic of depression.  That is why so many self-medicate with opiates, stimulants and alcohol  --  all of which tweak dopamine.  Even tobacco tweaks dopamine. I would indeed be very wary of giving ibogaine to someone with organic brain disease, schizophrenia or psychosis.  At least without a couple of orderlies with restraints nearby... If the freakin Feds ever come around and start approving research for substances like ibogaine, we might be able to cure a number of psychiatric ills that are now being managed by the reduction of symptoms (and not very effectively at that). With the neurological and psychological healing that ibogaine is widely touted to provide, Big Pharma would take it in the posterior if ibogaine were shown to reduce or cure depression.  And they contribute HEAVILY to their pet legislators. Was that a rant?  It was gettin' close... ~ET

I've seen ibogaine have profound antidepressant effects and and introspective effects that can really help a person.  I've also seen ibogaine do absolutely nothing but detox a person, they actually were more depressed and got "nothing" from the visionary/introspective experience.  It's not all that reliable as a one hit wonder when it comes to mental illness, with it's expense and risk it may not be the best move to try to sell it to people as if it is. There are dopamine agonists/antagonist out there out there like THP and apomorphine and several drugs used for torrettes and parkinsons syndrom.  None of them work effectively as an antidepressant.  Though there is an herbal extract from the plant Rhodiola Rosea that endogenously increase the levels of serotonin, dopamine and beta endorphins in the system, it worked great for me as an adaptogen.. after a few months I didn't need it anymore as if it normalize my energy lives, motivation and drive. There are also a few antidepressants on the market that effect dopamine too, wellbutrin and I believe Cybolta being 2 of them. From my own decade battle with chronic treatment resistant depression and working with others dealing with it I've come to the conclusion that 99% of people with depression have it for cognitive reasons and their brain is just reacting to that perceptual state... very few actually have some chemically dysfunctional systems.

Imprinting through the "shaman" projecting themselves onto others can also be used in very unhealthy ways, though this is more the case with traditional psychedelics. Iboga is a whole different can of worms being what most people need is another human, being human to them, willing to show there flaws, vulnerabilities and "imperfections" and how they acknowledge to themselves and others the existence of these things and how they process through them.  The issue here is we can't force help on anyone, we can only share ourselves openly and love unconditionally, the rest will happen or it won't, pushing help (in most cases) just puts the addict on the defense and shuts down the channels of communication.  When using "psychic powers" it's just way to easy for your ego to get involved and next thing you know your prejudices and assumptions are creeping into the mix.  It's much like divine revelation, I'm not a fan of using this stuff in therapies unless the person has come intentionally for whoever to "channel" this stuff for them. IMHO, we really do take ourselves way to seriously... I think that's one of the first lessons many people learn when using psychedelics, the over serious drama queen in us needs to let go of all this "special" hoo haaa that makes them feel like somebody cause all of these ornaments get in the way of the truly beautiful person that you've been since the day your were born.   The super ego/extra special type is something I've dabbled in, swinging from states of overly important, to feeling unworthy and unlovable, it was just a way of assuaging my insecurity and fear... finally I had to come to terms with my current internal reality.. this ego structure isn't "who I am" I'm just a reflection of he universe around me that can choose to act and react in healthy or unhealthy ways... just like everyone else, no better and no worse.

I have limited time in which to read all of the posts' Some sound advice' Drop the Subutex and go short acting for 3-4 weeks' then partake of Iboga' then you shall no suffer' Otherwise you shall feel dead for the best part of 2 weeks' and no right for 28 days' If you transition from Heroin' you shall have no withdrawal' no pain' come back blank' no cravings' just a little cold for 10 days' but flying on Ibogamines' so life is about mind sets' I am at this time treating someone for subutex addiction' 7 days now' no withdrawal' no pain' and he is still dead on his feet' very tired and rushing on Ibogamines' (in the twilight zone awaiting endorphines to kick back in) Just thought to share' Same goes for methadone' drop it for 4 weeks and go short acting' then you shall no suffer' Be Well! Bliss! Nobu +

Not a distraction at all, fallout - good to hear from you man! I used Rhodiola immediately after my first iboga flood for a few weeks. The traditional 'adaptogens' as they're called purportedly help the body re- integrate its chemistry and it sounds like they're worth examining for sure. I have the sense that it helped me to recover more quickly than I might have without it.

From my own decade battle with chronic treatment resistant depression and working with others dealing with it I've come to the conclusion that 99% of people with depression have it for cognitive reasons and their brain is just reacting to that perceptual state... very few actually have some chemically dysfunctional systems. Having treated more folks for deppression than for addiction' I see these depressions as some kind of chemical in-balance' or messed up psychological wiring' There is never any depression after Iboga therapy' If you take anti-deppressants' drop them and then partake of Iboga initiation' the Iboga has all of it's work cut out attempting to rewire the receptors bashed by these anti-depressants' The main thing I see of folks who take anti-depressants is they all have an inability to mentaly visualise' Life is I-Magi-Nation' These substances kind of frontal lobotamise the visual screen' making the head and psychi blank' hence less input' less output' Obviously the bods who make these substances know of what they do to the psychi mind of folks' kind of like pouring concrete into the psychi' of which should be as clear a s fresh running waters' Subutex does the same kind of thing to the mental screen' even with Iboga it takes some 9 days for the mental screen to come back online' On an aside' If you drop subutex and partake of Iboga' you shall feel very very tired for the best part of 2 weeks' no right for 3-4 weeks' your body thermostat shall be out of wack for this period until your natural endorphines come back online' Iboga shall kill the pain and the withdrawal' physicaly and psychologicaly' After you come back' eat hot curries' take hot baths' drink untold vit c' take magnesium and B6 supplements' take long walks and also work out' Even with the help of Iboga you shall be endorphine depleted for roughly 28 days' This is of why I say drop the subutex for 2-3 weeks before partaking of Iboga' cos from heroin or short acting' your endorphines shall come back online in a bout 10-14 days' hence you come back from Iboga' truth rushes in goosebumps and you feel cold' This is completely normal' This is one of the reasons folks fail Iboga detox' cos they flush for 2 weeks afterwards' it is no withdrawal' it is the Iboga short circuiting psychic energies plus endorphine depletion' Caution on using D2 agonist after Iboga' it shall just give you the gitters' Best no to add anything to Iboga' let her do the work' eat extremely well and stay warm' No coffee before or 7 weeks after Iboga! It can be extremely dangerious' Bliss! Nobu +

Very helpful information Nganga, thank you!

You are welcome brother' Be Well! Nobu +

I agree with most of what you just said Nobu. After taking iboga I realized with crystal clarity just how many of my depression symptoms are cognitive in nature, and that was actually quite a relief because it gave me hope that I had a say in what the hell happens to me. However, I think that some people still experience depression after a session. Although I think it is rare, maybe people should be open to the possibility that many different emotions can and do surface afterward and sometimes this includes depression. But I still believe that nothing can come close to the healing potential of this medicine - it gave me 90 solid days of bliss and vitality following my first flood. Good advice about switching from buprenorphine to something shorter acting. It's worth the effort in the long run. Just about everything you said about post-session treatment was suggested to me also. Hot baths and long walks felt better than I could ever have imagined! I could literally feel the endorphine system saturating again, it was magnificent. Can you elaborate on the warning you gave concerning coffee consumption post treatment? Is this only coffee or is it all caffeine? Thanks for your input man!

Yes' caffiene is a no no' it overwires the psychi/nervious system' can cause physical discomfort' heart pulpitations and even death' Most certainly never take coffee with Iboga therapy' your heart could give up' Also it is a drug that the NMDA receptors recognise and downgrade to adjust for the input' the same as nicotine and any other substance' Iboga is attempting to recet all of these systems back to as they where before the drugs where taken' More folks I have seen eventualy fail Iboga therapy and go back to opiates cos they continue to smoke tobacco' drink strong coffee' fizzy pop' junk food' alcohol' Alcohol kills Iboga' it floods the brain with natural endorphines of which compete for the same receptors the Iboga alks are binding too' Many folks I know' took Iboga and then proceeded to kill it with alcohol' cos Iboga showed them themselves and they where no prepared to deal with it' No long before they are back on A class substances again' Blessings and Light Nobu +

I reread my response about violence, that I didn't see how anyone could be violent with Iboga. I totally take that back. T

Nobu, Thank you. You experience is valuable, and your willingness to share even more so. In appreciation, T peace and readers

Very interesting and helpful response Nobu, thanks!

Oh yes' Iboga rage is very real' When I transitioned first time' "Truth" hit me in the face' all the lies I had been fed' all the manipulations' the distorts for the sake of control' I let rip' I slung back my head and screamed injustice at the universe' We took 40,000 watt sound systems into the forest' sent text messages' and blasted the universe senceless every weekend for 2 years' until the Poli finally shut me down' I also got locked up in jail for 9 hours to cool off' some arguement with a naibour of whom though he knew who he was' attempting to blind me with bullshit' Iboga reveals the truth in everything' We danced' He got knocked down' his pride got me arrested' hahahaha Oh what glory to see the Gorillas run mental upon manufactured consent' Be careful' Iboga can turn monkeys into Gorillas!! Bliss! Nobu +

I am glad somebody mentioned this subject as i did experience quite a bit of anger/rage after my experience. it went away afer about 2 weeks but i did have to address it. i wondered afer such a wonderful experience why was i so angy ? I felt as though maybe it was coming from the fact i felt so empowered again , and with this feeling i felt like i could and would stand up to anything that was unfair or unjust. i literally and dont take this the wrong way - felt like an agent of  the highest power. or that i was now a martyr for that same entity . I notice that i was very hyper sensitive to people and situations that came up in this period of time. I also thought that this anger was a type of purging of sorts . a regurgitation of ill will that was making its exit out of my psyche. This manifestation of emotion did subside and eventually go away completely after about 2 weeks time. I felt very much as Nobu mentioned above - that i wasnt standing for bullshit of anykind , from anybody either. Again admist such a new and beautiful backdrop of thinking and feeling i was very suprised to have to deal with this emotion in all its newfound intesity at times. I must state for the record it did go away and i dont feel it like that anymore.  i must go run errands. much love and respect to all of you good people i have met throughh iboga. my kindest regardss hp

On rage, yes, a man I was with lost touch with reality. I became someone deadly to him, and he fought me. He was stuck for three days, finally sedated enough to get some sleep, which helped immensely. I think that sleep deprivation can play a big part in mental fitness. I found later that he hadn't slept for two days before we met, that plus two days no sleep on ibo, no bueno. Lordy. All is well now, though. The black eye is fading, lol. We live and we learn, and this is a darn good thing. For me after tx, it wasn't just anger that came up, but EVERYTHING. Sadness, pain, anger, longing, union, joy, amusement. Everything was magnified and instantaneous. The immediacy faded after about a week, but it didn't feel bad when it was around. Just like these thiings had to come up to finish cleaning me. I too had a superduper bullshit meter, it hasn't entirely gone away, more like I agreed on a level to play the games living in society requires. Good to see y'all here!

I too had a superduper bullshit meter, it hasn't entirely gone away, more like I agreed on a level to play the games living in society requires. Hahaha!! Freakin goose bumps! Bwiti is self truth' we are but reflections of each other' When I met with Bwiti I never came back' Bwiti' psychi walks in different coloured shadows' persona is seen and stripped' only concious avoidances or self confusions are hard to read' folks carry psychic baggage like wearing grey rags' One problem I see with Iboga' if you love a materialistic perception of the world' no take Iboga' cos you shall lose it all' hahaha Symbiosis' man and plant' no symbiosis man and systems of social control' If you eat Iboga regular' Keep Tracking the Love' and keep smiling' and learn of how to be tactful in your Warfare ) Sacred plants are entities of warfare' with yourself and your self percieved enemies' when you suppress you natural insticts with opiates for many years' then partake of the jungle in it's raw essence' it is only natural that the Gorilla goes mental' he has been locked in a cage for years' My vision' Me the Gorilla came crashing through the jungle' I roared at the trees and sky' a massive tree came out of my mouth and "Animal let rip with righteousness' I t took me 11 weeks to calm the smoldering beast within' hehehe he says' this beast is happy and still smoldering well some 5-6 years later')but learnt so much from my ancestors the gorillas! They taight me of the family unit' of protections and attack' of how to find food' warmth and shelter' they taight me to stand up for myself and tell "Bullshit to fuck off" If it is no part of me and no use to the comunity' then it gets trashed' this ssi Iboga! Iboga mirror! The never ending process of similarity mirror reflections created and assymilated by DNA and the conciousness of the great beast' Hehehe' should I eat Iboga and write this stuff to you' Hahahaha Damn fuckin right I should' It is cleansing ) Bliss! Nobunoni +

Nobu ! You should eat Iboga and type stuff we shall all read (smile) and learn something from (bigger smile). Thanks to everybody who stops by and says hi or adds some information ( on Iboga or not). Your writings are always a highlight for me  . I have a deep respect for all members of this forum and what they bring to the table ( the A - Team again .... maybe G Force or even Star Wars !) ! We fight the good fight for the light ! later Jedi - HP