Total-Alkaloid Extract of T.iboga - (Now w/pics)

Thanks again for this. I tell ya, the pics helped me tremendously. Anticipating an expanded version! You rock, Cal.

There are methods of reconstituting the alkaloids back into a small quantity of the root back (indra extract method), this is supposed to make the alkaloid more stable if you wish to hold onto it for more than a few weeks.  Ibogaine seems to like to bond to other iboga alkaloids and make weird shit, I'm wondering if this happens in old acidic extractions and this is why I've gotten repeated headaches from some extracts that I'm guessing have sat around for some time.

Here is a link to some extraction techniques and information for T.iboga and V.africana : http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70658 most of this looks complex and not very user-friendly-however if anyone here has the skill to decipher any of it in lay terms I'm all ears...

There is one really important thing I need to know:  are the alkaloids in the root bark acidic (pH < 7) or alkaline (basic,  pH > 7)? Which it is, I believe, is based upon the pH of the soil in which it grows.  For mimosa root bark, the Brazilian soil is probably acidic, the tryptamine is in an acid-salt form (alkaloid + tannic acid).  Adding acid to solubilize the alkaloids in mimosa is unnecessary. However, it appears that the soil where Iboga grows is alkaline (my guess from photos) which would result in alkaloids in a free base form.  ((( this is just my theory, somguenevere_walkse somewhere knows the real story, I'll bet.))) Only by measuring the pH of a root bark solution can the appropriate solvent(s) and amount of acid or base be determined. What is needed:  pH paper or meter; distilled H2O; (1) teaspoon of powdered root bark. 1.  test H2O to make sure pH = 7 2.  heat 150 ml H2O to boiling 3.  slowly add root bark (to prevent boil-over) 4.  stir occasionally until solution is at room temp.  Let stand. 5.  hopefully, powder will mostly settle to bottom soon and you can measure the pH of a fairly clear liquid. Or, you can just send me a kilo or two of primo bark...  (hear me barking?) (arf arf) My philosophy of making home-cooked TA extracts:  use only non-toxic, readily available substances (chemicals);  use as few of them as possible;  use as little heat as possible. Of course, if you already know the answer to my question, you could just say so... You can send comments & info to my email to keep the list clean, if you wish:  McKnight@ZettaCat.com Guerrilla NeuroPharmacology ! ! ! ~e ANYONE w/ a high speed link and bittorrent?  There appears to be a gigantic trove (over 4 GB) of Iboga info here:      http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=71455&highlight=iboga WHEW ! ! !  Lottsa info on that link, friend Cal. Having done a coupla 2 - 3 extractions meself, I am so glad you asked for comments.   **** BIGASS DISCLAIMER  --  this is theoretical only, I have never tried this recipe w/ Iboga ***** The recipe below should work well for kitchen chemists w/ no lab experience.  Using ETOH is great because it filters and evaporates MUCH easier & faster that just H2O.  The whole thing could be done with only H2O with additional time and labor. guenevere_walks PS  --  I keep finding mistakes/omissions.  It's late.  Yawn!  Please point out remaining goofs to me tomorrow...   ~e "Put the rootbark into a large clean jar and add approx half a 70cl {think he means 700ml} bottle of vodka, two cups of red wine and the juice of a lemon. Some users like to also add a half-teaspoon of vinegar." About 500 ml Vodka (ETOH + H2O) would probably be required for 28 g (1 oz.) of powdered root bark.  There should be as much clear ETOH on top as sediment + ETOH in the bottom layer. I would forget the wine and lemon. Only 1 source of acid (H+) is needed.  Vinegar is my favorite because it is standardized and it will evaporate when fully dried.  The question is "How much is necessary?" If you have pH papers, you want a pH around 4. W/o pH papers, it is necessary to estimate.  For a really good estimate you need to know the approximate weights of ALL alkaloids in the bark, get their molecular weights, and compute the number of moles.  OUCH!  Then add ~10% excess moles of vinegar.  DOUBLE OUCH!! Easier to go out and buy pH papers... Seat-of-the-pants?  Add 5ml (1 tsp) vinegar to each 30 grams of bark. Shake or stir like crazy.  Taste.  If it tastes sour-bitter like vinegar it should be good.  If it just tastes bitter (even though it smells like vinegar) you need to add more vinegar.  We want a slightly acidic solution, which should taste distinctly sour. "Shake vigorously and then leave to stand for one week, shaking occasionally. " If powdered bark is used, 2 days should be plenty (longer doesn't hurt).  If powdered bark in ETOH is VERY CAREFULLY heated, only 1 hour should be necessary (see crockpot below). After extracting the alkaloids into the ETOH, taste again.  If the sour taste is gone, add more vinegar and repeat extraction. Filter the solution now, not after it has been reduced!  If the solution is not real gunky (a highly technical term) you can decant and filter through a coffee filter.  Add some fresh ETOH to the root (make a slurry) and filter again.  Combine. "After one week has passed, empty the contents into a bowl or pan and place gently over boiling water. DO NOT DO THIS CLOSE TO A NAKED FLAME AS ALCOHOL IS HIGHLY FLAMMABLE. ENSURE THE AREA IS WELL VENTILATED. Alcohol boils at around 80 degrees centigrade, (as opposed to water which boils at 100). " The trusty crockpot is the thing to use.  Fill the bottom w/ hot water, put a good fitting glass baking dish instead of the lid on top, pour extract into the dish. "When the alcohol has boiled gently away, remove the bowl and strain the contents through cloth. " It would be impossible to filter the contents if ALL the ETOH & H2O (Vodka is 60% H2O) has boiled away.  Better to filter the less concentrated solution anyway (see above). Here, you need to decide if you want a tincture (~20% ETOH) or an aqueous extract (mainly H2O  --  you'll never get ALL the ETOH out) or a solid.  Since the ETOH will evaporate faster at first, reducing the solution by half should give you ~20%.  Such a tincture is stable and will not allow micro-organisms to grow, even for long periods at room temperature. Reducing further will give a more highly concentrated extract with less ETOH. Reducing CAREFULLY to dryness (probably a tarry consistency) will yeild an unrefined Total Alkaloid (TA) extract.  Please note: the extract CAN BE BURNED at temperatures less than boiling H20 if left on the heat too long.  No place for ADD! The advantage to a dried extract is that it can be weighed and doses standardized.  Plus, it (and the tincture) can be kept indefinitely in the freezer. "(The solid that remains should no longer have the bitter taste it did prior to beginning the extraction. If it does, mix everything back together and return it to the jar for another week. Then repeat the above.)  Assuming that the solid is not now distinctly bitter, discard it and allow the liquid that remains after straining to stand for about 12 hours.  The extract is now ready for consumption. "Storage - It is recommended you consume the extract within a few days of making it. However, if necessary, it can be stored for about 2 - 3 weeks in a domestic refrigerator. After this period it will begin to brew, and the composition will be altered. Smelling the extract will tell you if it's started to deteriorate."

Hey McKnight! Great links and information... As my own internet connection is wishy-washy right this minute, I am afraid I have to be brief - but I promise to post more later. Your question about the pH of the naturally occurring alkaloids is very interesting. I was under the impression that most if not all alkaloids are basic in nature, hence the word 'alkaloid' coming from 'alkaline'??..http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alkaloid - but how could this be, some plants are highly acidic so you can do fairly easy alkaline extractions on them  Obviously I'm no chemist...probably be in jail if I was!!!  But I do have years of experience extracting alks from plant sources, in fact before we came up with the acetic acid 'tek' we tried an STB (Straight -to -Base) on a small portion of RB...this did nothing, at least at first. We left it sitting in solution for some time (days, weeks?) kinda forgot about it, but when we looked again, there were what appeared to be crystals forming in the NP solvent layer (naptha). Too little material to gauge anything from, but enough of 'something' to pique interest. Root Bark is expensive not to mention hard to come by, so this 'method' will be hard to reproduce, and anyway this (even if it worked) would yield a free-base material that I've never worked with...The bark itself is almost certainly acidic, not sure how this effects the extraction of the alks, or even what pH the alks are naturally occurring. Acids are sour to taste and once you've tasted many many acids you can pretty much tell what is and is not. I realize this is the crudest of the crude so far as methods go, but in lieu of having a GC/MS in my basement I'll have to settle for the 'old ways' and some litmus paper... The last time we made the extract from iboga, we diluted the vinegar, which was standardized at 5% acidity, with the same amount of h2o and the outcome was identical. Technically I think just 'cooking' the bark in water would yield similar results. I am not sure. If this is the case, I suppose these alkaloids exist in salt form...when you do an A/B (acid-base) extraction on something, it is to convert the salts to free base...this would also indicate that the DMT in mimosa exists in salted form naturally..so 'alkaloid' here seems almost misleading?? Mimosa hostilis (Tenuiflora) is certainly acidic, so you can just hit the powdered bark with alkaline water and add np solvent to yield a pretty pure DMT from -a free base of course. Having ingested this with caapi for ayahuasca sessions, I will say here that I much prefer the naturally occurring form of alkaloid. Maybe you can help to clear some of this up hehe I hate to answer questions with a question, but here I have only my experience as a guide. Basement shaman trade ideas all the time and I think it is as much an art as a science, not meaning that the science shouldn't be reckoned in... Well I've just proof read this and I hate to dump a bunch of text I've worked on, so I'm keeping this load of crap, if anything, perhaps you are amused...I like the tek you have at the end of your post, there's an alcohol extraction that was popularized in I think the 80's (?) that yields a liquid - called "Indra"(??) - seems pretty damned gross...Any way, when I get to my buddies I'll steal highspeed and be able to more accurately peruse your post...keep up the good work my friend, we're all in this together!!

Cal!  Compadre!! Neither of us are chemists.  It appears that I might know a little more about the nuts and bolts than you.  Basically, we just know enough to be dangerous, which is not all bad.  I hear women like the dangerous, outlaw types like us.    (2 bad it ain't true...   )    FIRST AND FOREMOST:  Call upon your mighty powers of belief, and please believe me, we NEED to know the pH of an aqueous bark solution.  Not necessarily to get all the alks out, but get them out quick and easy with minimal crap (another scientific term) along with the Good Stuff (GS). OK, now on to Chem 101. Alkaloids are alkaline when in their free-base state.  I.e. free-base alkaloids are alkaline/basic -and- have a net positive charge -and- a ph > 7. What a free-base looks like is     (alkaloid)-OH Add acid (e.g. HCl) to an alkaloid and the H+ Hydrogen cation ( +proton) from the acid combines with the OH- hydroxy anion ( - ) like the North and South poles of a magnet (not really, but sorta) leaving the acid anion (CL-) attached to the alkaloid.  (Which is no longer an alkaline free-base alkaloid, it is now an "acid salt".)  PHEW! When you add an acid to an alkaloid, you get an "acid salt"  (alkaloid)-Cl  -and-  a net negative charge  -and-  pH < 7. The free-base alkaloids are typically non-polar and do not have oppositely charged 'ends' (geometrically speaking) and are soluble in non-polar solvents like ether and naphtha. Due to the negative charge of the anion (Cl, e.g.) the acid salt has polarity, (sort of like a bar magnet) with positive and negative ends.  Acid salts and other polar compounds are soluble in polar solvents, such as water. That's why you keep you cocaine-HCl dry and your crak craks (boiling, undesolved water).  They now teach that to High School Chem students, don't they?  (snicker) The DMT in mimosa is present as an acid salt "(DMT)-tannic acid" and can be extracted as-is with water (or vodka).  (see DMT-nexus.com if you don't believe yer buddy Eon.  Try searching for "water extract".) Bear in mind that there is a pseudo-infinite number of ways to skin a cat.  My objective is high efficiency, low cost, easy to get chems, simple procedure and CLEAN product.  Mr Clean would be so proud! If Iboga is the same as mimosa, no acid or base would be needed to get it into ETOH.  Hence, less crap in the final product.  Unfortunately, I doubt that is the case. Since acid salts are more stable and more quickly absorbed (less icky gunk in sweetie's tummy to make upchuck) we will want to end up with a 'salt'. If I'm going to spend hours writing this up, I want to be darn sure I got it right.  ! ! ! AND ! ! !    Anyone using the tek will get the absolutely sweetest tasting results possible.  Need to measure that pH!  It could take a very long time to track it down on the web. ~e

My good man... Thanks for the tutorial, you are now stuck in the job...you have only yourself to blame.  Concise explanations, I would really like to hear more! So far, I am only proficient in some A/B, STB...and various tea and tar methods (mimosa, other DMT plants, cactus, yage) along with the crude TA at the top of this thread... It would seem to me that actually reading the entire thread has it's benefits. That way when when one does a cursory glance and then replies (like I did) he doesn't eat his sneakers hehe.. Glad to have your advice and interest! That's what it's all about!!

Oh, gee whiz, there's the bell... OK class, and you especially Calvin, there WILL be a test on Monday! Now, I want you all to go home this weekend and read chapters 1 - 36 in your text books! This test will count on your final grade! And, NO, eating cactus does NOT count as an excuse! D I S S S S M I S S E D ! ! ! What? CLASS! CLASSS ! ! ! NO.  Absolutely NOT!  Halloween is NOT a Holiday!

haha it is for me... "My body is a temple" - Abe "Well now it's an amusement park" - Hellboy

Keep it coming, dangerous gents. This is not my forte, and never will be (too many other things to study!!!), but I am glad to count hobbyist chemists among my friends! Please send me all your extra ibogaine. You can use the Mexican address.

****   CAUTION    ****    CAUTION    ****    CAUTION    **** DO NOT TRY COMBINING IBOGA TA EXTRACT WITH AN MAOI ! ! ! Unless and until you know ALL of the compounds present in the TA extract. Reason being that a TA extract MIGHT contain tyramine or some other toxic amine normally deactivated by MAO.  I have been unable as yet to ascertain a complete list of compounds present in Iboga root bark.  Until an accurate list of compounds is discovered, the safe and wise approach is to assume the worst. Links or other info re:  scientific papers listing ALL compounds, not just alkaloids, in Tabernanthe iboga will be appreciated. ~eon

A small thing: I have read (somewhere) that heat is uneccesary for the vinegar extraction, yet letting sit for a week seems would cause bacterial growth. Any thoughts? Tia to the maxx

You read correct information Tia...heat is only used to expedite the process - the extraction can be done in hours versus days or even weeks. Since many people come to iboga tail-in-hand, my guess is that they have feelings similar to my own : "let's get this going" As for bacterial growth - I really dunno, that's a good question. Certainly possible, maybe even likely...probably probable... I personally would not mess around with a soak in water/acid. Only way I'd be comfortable is steeping it in alcohol (per other extraction 'teks') and I am not the go to guy for directions there...

Thanks, brothermine.

Dearest Tia, Ever made pickles?  Vinegar inhibits the growth of micro-organisims, but only when sufficiently strong/concentrated.  Even then, it is recommended to boil (or at least par-boil) the items to be pickled unless you are going for refrigerator pickles. Chemists and cooks share many things. ETOH also inhibits such growth, without boiling, when at about 15% or better.  IPOH works great, too, and is not much more toxic than ETOH (per conversation w/ toxicologist) with less likelyhood of disappearing down the chef's throat. Until someone, somewhere can tell me the pH of an aqueous root bark solution, there is not a whole lot more dependable info I can add... Yer Pal, Chef Eon

Thanks for that, Eon. I will now go look up 'IPOH'. That's one I'm not familiar with. I recently spoke with someone who doesn't heat the RB/vinegar solution at all, but just gives a good hour soak four times with fresh vinegar, then adds heat only to reduce the volume of vinegar before basifying with non sudsing janitorial grade ammonia. Sounds simple and effective. Go kitchen witches! Tia

My apologies.  IPOH  ==  IsoPropyl alcohol  ==   Isopropanol  ==  rubbing alcohol.  It can be purchased as 91% at Walmart and Walgreen, the two Wallies.  It's effective, cheap and can be made anhydrous simply by adding non-iodized table salt. Why did your acquaintance basify the solution???  Acid salts are more easily absorbed in the gut.  Freebase alkaloids take longer to dissolve and be absorbed and, to me, are more often associated with nausea.  Also, acid salts are less likely to be affected by the changeable environment of the gut, and hence they are more predictable. The common (at least among us uncommon types) reason to basify an alkaloid is to separate it by dissolving in an non polar solvent or for smoking purposes (c.f. crak). IF (that's a BIG IF) the root bark alkaloids are naturally acid salts, no vinegar or any other acid would be required to extract the alkaloids.  Nor would ammonia be necessary.  Just water.  Or water + alcohol for easier filtering and evaporation. IF (another BIG IF) the alkaloids are naturally in their freebase state, they could be very easily extracted with dry IPOH and then turned into acid salts with vinegar.  You would then have ibogaine acetate (similar to ibogaine HCl). Can you acquaintance tell us what the pH of an aqueous root bark solution is? ~eonisphere

An aqueous solution, I have no idea. I don't know that the active bits of the RB are even water soluble. Basify to create a TA that lasts many many months, very stable. This is what I have heard. Please google the teks of Chris Jenks. They are elaborate, and for me, require a dictionary for some parts (and that's actually sayin' sumthin'). You may have your answers there, written by one with far more tekkie knowledge than this girl! If you do read theses teks, and are feeling magnanimous, I'd love a translation!!! Good to 'see' you back, Eon.

I had never really left, just couldn't reach the keyboard from 100 miles away.  I was still here in spirit, though... While most of the root bark will not dissolve, enough ions (not guenevere_walkss) will be in solution to get an initial pH measurement.  Even elemental lead can be dissolved  --  very very slightly  -- in water. While some freebase alkaloids are very stable, the acid salts are, without any exception known to myself, more stable.  They are more resistant to change over time, to other chemicals and to heat.  Since acid salts are often hydrophilic (water loving) and hygroscopic (water attracting, absorbing (sukkin'?)) and freebases are usually hydrophobic (don't mix w/ water, not rabid  ) unprotected/unshielded acid salt alkaloids will often absorb water, sometimes to the point of becoming gooey.  The freebases will not be similarly affected by humidity. So, in some conditions, a freebase will be more desirable (e.g. your backpack in the middle of the rainforest).  All the scientists/doctors will use the HCl because it is easier to purify and in protected lab-type environments, more stable than the freebase. To prove this to yourself, take one gram cocaine HCl and one gram freebase cocaine (crak).  Expose both on a plate and take into the bathroom.  Take a very long very hot shower with the door closed.  Observe.  The coke HCl will be a clump of goo while the crak is still solid.  If the crak has disappeared, repeat experiment, but this time, do NOT take a crak pipe into the bathroom.    Practically speaking, if sealed properly  --  airtight, no light, no moisture  --  and put into a freezer, both freebase and acid salt alkaloids will usually last for years.  That is (ahem) if they don't 'evaporate' first, as I have often observed.  I kept some harmaline freebase in the freezer for 10 years without apparent loss of potency. Will google "chris jenks" and ibogaine.  Thanks for the lead! Yer benighted pal, guenevere_walks

After considerable searching on the web, it does not appear that T. iboga contains tyramine.  So my warning re: MAOIs and Iboga TA were probably unnecessary.  However, I am in the process of formulating a list of all known T. iboga compounds which I will both google and send to a pharmacologist with considerable experience in toxicology and chemistry before proclaiming that combination possibly safe.  I would feel very very badly indeed were someone to try mixing an MAOI w/ TA or ibogaine with bad results based upon something I ignorantly and carelessly said.  What I said was 'brainstorming' and NOT a recommendation! Based upon the review of a number of articles on the web, it certainly appears that ibogaine exists in its freebase form in the natural, untreated root bark  --  though I have not seen a statement precisely to that effect.  That conclusion is drawn based upon the use of non-polar solvents in the first step of several extraction teks or the addition of acid where water is used as a solvent. Hence, ethanol (ETOH), isopropanol (IPOH), acetone or petroleum ether (naphtha) should be suitable for the first step in the process without adding any acid or base.  The benefit in using such solvents is ease of filtration and evaporation. More to come, in a while... Following are three links to Iboga chemistry.  The first is a bibliography provided by Dr. C.W. Jenks.  The second two are links to his work.  Profound thanks to Dr. Jenks!      http://www.puzzlepiece.org/ibogaine/literature/iborefs.html      http://puzzlepiece.org/ibogaine/literature/jenks2002.pdf      http://puzzlepiece.org/ibogaine/literature/ibogaine_extraction_manual.pdf Guerrilla NeuroPharmacology!         ~ET

Bump - pics at last

phew...just my gut talkin,but i have an intuition that iboga and mao would be a potentialy fatal combo. a very complex molecule by itself. i know i would not have the balls to consider that one, but it would be good to have some empirical data on the subject. i should burn one and have a looksy around...

No matter of how pure your extract is it shall no prevent nausia' The nausia is caused by seretonin flooding the motion centres of your back brain' It is a psychological things and has no thing to do with your stomach per se' It is the brains way of saying' "I have had enough of this" Still awaiting your report at kicking the bitch' you done lots of extraction work but no work on yourself!! All the Best' Nobu +

Haha! Thanks Nobunoni, but when you say I have done no work on myself, I would beg to differ.   Even the low dose of iboga I had taken has indeed helped me work on myself more than just battling my opiate addiction.  It has shown me a lot more than I had wished to use it for, even though only got so much on board.  Instead of taking the occasional boost during my maintenance (opiate maintenance), on "rough" days, I have instead reduced my dose of 20g of pod powder a day, down to my last day, two days ago, of only 8.4 g.  On top of that I have switched to an even shorter acting, easier to measure dose of morphine sulfate.  And rather than the 10% morphine alkaloid profile of the pods, or roughly 80 mgs of morphine, plus codeine and other poppy alkaloids (of unknown %'s), I have narrowed it down to 45-60 mgs of morphine sulfate only, per day.  I am currently reducing that morphine dose daily, and am trying to get down to 15, maybe 30 mgs of morphine per day, then will undergo a treatment again.  My sitter has started back to work, and caring for a family of five has taken priority to my detox, as I need to be sure they are all cared for before I take another 3 day journey.  But in the meantime, my mind is preparing, my body is preparing, and I am already beginning to develop a better routine and better outlook for a clean healthy life.  Thanks, though, Nobunoni, and Calaquendi, and all the rest of you who are watching and caring about my well being.  I love you all and bless you all!! Respectfully, GD

Respectfuly bro! It no matter if you are using 10mg morphine or 700-3000mg a day' Iboga alks shall wipe it out! All the Best' Bliss! Nobu +

Dear wolfmoon, Fist, allow me to give a belated "Welcome!" to the Forum.  Other issues have prevented me from spending much time here recently.  Your extraction teks are totalamente fantastico! To Mr. Dad and you other Ibonauts: I am seeking criticism on the following extraction tek.  (This is my first time, please be gentle.) (If you can't be gentle, please try to keep the bruises to where they won't show.)   (1) Finely powder 40g root bark (RB) and put in 1L beaker.  Prepare 500ml solution of HCl w/ pH = 4. (2) Add 200ml of HCl solution to RB and agitate several times over 8 hours minimum. (3) Measure pH. If pH >= 5, add 50ml HCl solution.  Agitate periodically for 1 hour minimum.  Check pH.  If pH >= 5, repeat. else If pH <5, add volume of 95% ethanol (EtOH) equal to 30% of liquid added previously.  Agitate.  Let stand until RB settles and solution above is clear. (4)  Decant through a filter, leaving most of RB in beaker.  Add 2:1 solution of H2O and EtOH equal to what was decanted.  Agitate periodically for at least 1 hour.  Let stand until RB settles. Repeat this step at least once (depends on compactness of RB layer). (5) Decant and filter, allowing most solvent to drain from RB.  Combine liquid.  Filter once more, if necessary.  Prepare steam bath (crock pot) w/ Pyrex pie plate above and fan.  Strip off liquid and collect TA residue.  Done. Why add the EtOH? ~~  It makes the solution easier to decant and faster filtering. ~~  The solution will strip faster at a lower temperature. ~~  The 2:1 ratio is still a good solvent for the HCls. Why HCl instead of vinegar? ~~  Better pharmacodynamics. One concern that I have is that the weak HCl solution will not be sufficient to solubilize the alks and create hydrochlorides.  On the other hand, I want to keep the pH as close to 7 as possible to improve the final product.  Other experience has led me to shoot for a pH ~ 4 in general  --  not hygroscopic, easy on sensitive tissues, low enough to get all the alks. Sincere THANKS for you help!    ~eon PS  --  Does anyone know if I can charcoal the H2O/EtOH mix before stripping?  ~e

huh ?

huh? hehehe Keep Things Simple. Bliss! Nobu +

The pKa of ibogaine is 8.1.  This would mean that a pH of 2 points above or below would cause 99% of the ibogaine to be in either it's acidic salt form or it's freebase form, which is apparently an unstable oil.  So a water acidified with a pH of 6.1 should ionize 99% of the ibogaine to form ibogaine HCl.  Now when pulling the alkaloids from a bark, however, a lower acidity will pull more impurities, but may also do so faster, and I am not sure of the pKa's of the other alkaloids.  Also, in Chris Jenks' article, I believe he talks about ibogaine's instability in solvents, of which I believe water was the most stable.  It begins to break down in acetone very fast, and I forget what comes in between.

Water' Methanol' ethanol' acetone'(Ibogaine oxidises quickly in acetone) Napths'(of which destroy the moles quite quickly) Bliss' Nobu + Unless in an acid salt state' Ibogaine is practicaly insoluble in water'

Yep, thanks Nobu!  I was just coming back to add, but you got it for me. GD

BTW, freebase TA is total alkaloids (actually the ibogaine, ibogaline, ibogamine and residual alkaloids), PTA is purified total alkaloids (ibogaine, ibogaline, ibogamine in HCl salts), PTAA is purified total active alkaloids (all active alkaloids from tabernanthe iboga including, but not limited to, ibogaine, ibogaline, ibogamine, tabernanthine, in HCl salt and freebase mix).

Thanks for taking the time put this all here bro, this valuable information. Glad to have it. Good clarifications on the different extracts, I like that.

I was just thinking (which is what happens, when replying/sending, so I make edits and add more stuff, lol) that maybe the added oily freebase alkaloids, that won't precipitate from the acetone could be dissolved in some vinegar or some vinegar and water, then evaporated to make acetic acid salts (although these are probably gonna be hygroscopic, if that works). One could try carbonic acid, citric acid, fumaric acid, tartaric acid, phosphoric, whatever one has access too, and see if any of those work to salt out those added alkaloids. Could just take some of that freebase oil, split it up evenly each in a separate small amount of distilled water, then add each acid (pH  maybe 4 or 5 in case any have real low pKa's) and evaporate the water. Maybe one of the concentrated acids could be used to salt them from the acetone even. See if any of them form crystals or a nice solid. SWIM'd give it a shot if the bark wasn't so expensive, but for anyone thinking about extracting kilos, it might make an even better, full alkaloid TA, in which all the alkaloids are more stable, and very pure, with all the active alkaloids of iboga present, and in a salt form. Wouldn't that be awesome? There are a lot of different acids one could try. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- My reasoning: Trichocereus bridgesii is Achuma cactus, with the most extra alkaloids of any Trichocereus (just under Peyote  aka Lophphora williamsi). When extracting Trichocereus bridgesii, made basic with calcium hydroxide  (plus a tiny bit of water to make it a paste), with d-limonene (orange oil and NP  solvent), one first extracts the paste with the d-limonene and filters it out, then uses acetic acid to pull out the Mescaline , then can use some carbonic and citric acid mix, all of which you can find in the grocery store, to pull out the added alkaloids, it makes a TA achuma or bridgesii extract. This has many more effects, including two mild MAOIs contained in the cactus, which intensify the effects of the Mescaline . By making the TA, you get much more of the full alkaloid profile of the cactus making it a more powerful, slightly different experience. Some people prefer pure Mescaline  HCl, while some prefer the full alkaloid profile of the bridgesii (just like our iboganaut friends!). Either person can be happy by either extracting and recrystallizing the Mescaline  HCl one way, or they can use another way with several different acids to make an extract of the various alkaloid salts of the cactus. Some acids form nice crystals of each type of alkaloid, just got to figure out which one works with each alkaloid.. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Just another thought for the chemistry people out there.. Whaddya, think?

I am rather in awe of what you've accomplished, and so excited you are willing to take the time to make it clear for others. Gratitude! There is such momentum building in and around Iboga, at least here in the states, maybe everywhere. Your work  is a part of that!!!

Well, it's really Chris Jenks' work, with a few notes I picked up elsewhere.  I just read it, and wrote it in regular people terms.  Although some is a bit more advanced organic chemistry, I tried to make it at as understandable as possible, and let me tell you, that freebase TA alone, takes out so much gunk, that is makes probably a 40-50% TA..  The acetone and HCl steps are bonus if you really want some nice pretty tan crystally powder, but not really 100% necessary, because we have HCl in our stomach that should convert all the alkaloids very quickly.  A gram or two of plant material is nothing like taking 10 grams from an acetic acid extract or trying to munch down 30 grams of wood.  Much respect to those who can, but in withdrawal I have trouble munching anything, let alone some nasty, bitter tree bark.. Much thanks for the kind compliments.  Love and light!

Chris Jenks video on how he does the extraction, from youtube.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4W-GUEHDgFw

Good one, Dad!  I must say you deserve every penny of the generous salary that Mr. Quendi is paying you.  In fact, I am hereby suggesting that he doubles it!    Thanks! ~eon

Yeah, I'll be rich soon, if he doubles it!  LOL  So umm, what's he payin you, mister moderator?

Gee, I'm sorry, Dad.  Mr. Quendi made me sign a Non-Disclosure Agreement when he generously offered me the job.  I can tell you this, though, it's at least half as much as he is paying you...    ~e

Indeed, I am so pleased with each of you - I have decided that you should give each other a bonus. But don't tell one another exact figures...fiscal incongruities tend to complicate relationships... (and shit)

That is so very kind of you, Cal! I'm just wondering what Dad and I are going to do in our new Caribbean vacation homes  --  you know, the ones we're going to buy with our next paychecks... ~e

This is an incredibly simple and effective method; iboga must be one of the easiest ethnobotanicals to extract from in some ways. Just to say, for my last flood experience shared with my sister, I was soaking 44g of powdered root bark in vinegar for around five days with occasional shaking on the recommendation of harveyplex, well after this time the vinegar was black which one would hope in part was due to a high concentration of alkaloids (3g of powdered root bark was saved for consumption as is per person, to get the essence of the whole plant in there). For this stage I was quite liberal with the vinegar, using at least 400ml. I poured off and filtered the vinegar from this first pull, and unfortunately shortly after this, a tired family member accidently threw the vast majority of the iboga down the sink. I managed to save maybe a quarter of it, which I heated with the double boiler, extracted, soaked overnight, extracted, and repeated this each once more. The vinegar was much clearer after the initial long soak, and I think it very likely the vast bulk of the alkaloids are pulled after that first long soak. Despite much of the iboga being lost after this first soak, and the small amount of TA obtained, a dose equivalent to 25g of this root bark was found to be STRONGER than my last flood experience, also with 25g (of a different batch however), when the long soak and this method were followed to completion. Again, this TA was found to be deep while being much smoother on the body than the root bark, the ataxia and dizziness were much less pronounced and it was easier to move around and go to the toilet. Personally, for me now, TA is the only way to flood. So I think a long soak to begin with using a larger quantity of vinegar then one would use for subsequent alkaloid pulls may be advantageous. Thanks HP for the recommendation!

you bet brother !!!

From Chris Jenks, via ibogaine.mindvox.com email list.. Perhaps a pillow case with a very high thread count would be a better filter, and brand new, as well..