4-MeO-PCP and 6-APB

Howdy friend roy! I wanted to address these 'new' chemicals that seem to be sprouting up like mad, so I am glad someone decided to broach the subject... As far as research chemicals are concerned, I don't mind people talking about their experiences with them, etc. but I want to keep any sourcing of these materials off the boards - the laws concerning these products are so wishy-washy and seem to change on a whim; couple that with the very limited human trials and general lack of good 'science' and it could spell problems in any number of ways. Sharing sources for any plant stuffs or entheogen is just fine, but if people have a burning curiosity about RC's I would prefer those inquiries be done via PM or off site. Barring that, I am all for discussion of anyone's experiences with these things, I find I am curious about the effects of some of this stuff myself. I have a limited exposure to RC's - my last and latest venture came in the form of overdoing it with JWH-018. I turned green and was sure I had killed myself....for about an hour, it wasn't pleasant    I vaporized about 50mg and didn't know a normal vaporized dose is like 10mg...won't do that again. So, yeah that was a DSM (dumb-shit mistake) and a guy with all my experiences should know better. As for the RC discussions here at Iboga, it's all good - but for the record - let us keep sourcing and price information to PM or off site dialogue. Thanks man ~Cal

Based on personal experience(s), I would suggest being very, very careful when experimenting with these new research chemicals. I had a few really nasty experiences last summer and I swore off these things forever. Not wanting to make sweeping statements, but some of them are outright poisons. Just because they are legal does not make them in any way safe or worthwhile. Not only does 6-APB seem to have nasty effects, it seems to be very rarely sold as the chemical advertised. I had a revolting experience with this chemical over the summer, and that was the decisive experience, it slapped me in the face and made me wake up and realise I was being a human guinea pig for nasty, unresearched chemicals...if you do medical trials, you get paid thousands to do this, yet I was paying for the privilege! What a reckless fool I was, all for a few hours of 'fun'! Never again. I have a friend who recently experienced what was sold as 6-AFB himself, and after 2 hours of euphoria had a really long and revolting come down with horrible side effects, and it made him swear off new unresearched chemicals for good. So I would stick to what is tried and tested personally. I think it would be good to discourage much in the way of discussion of research chemicals on a forum devoted to Iboga, it doesn't seem right to me, and there are plenty of other forums which discuss research chemicals freely. Just my 2 cents.

Hi brightwillow, I under your position and I will comply. Hi Ban, I agree that RCs are not all that great but am hoping for one that is OK.  LSD was a RC at one time as were DMT and everything else.  As you say you never know what your really getting.  But I have read some good stories on some of them.  As I have said the bad thing about RC is if you like it you can not just take more like acid or others things for the get high dose is close to a problem dose. Best to all,  cinderpath

Thanks for the input fellas... Puma - I agree that discussion(s) about RC's is kind of counter-productive to the basic 'mission' of our community - but I am not one for censorship at all if it can be helped, and I really think that there will be very few items of interest in this field as a whole. This is why I am okay with members talking about their own experiences if they want to share here. Sometimes things like interest in RC's will overlap with the inquiries of psychonauts of many an ilk, and if there was perhaps an interesting chemical that would dove tail with an entheogenic experience it would be good to explore this. But in general, I think that these things will fizzle out and that the majority of members here have little or no interest in these new synthetics... I use the JWH's as an example here: this group of chemicals are 'artificial' or synthetic cannabinoids - and could potentially be of some use to someone who (for reasons of drug testing,etc) cannot imbibe cannabis. Using marijuana post-flood for the 'medicinal' reasons of analgesia/relaxation/appetite - I found to be of immense help, and there may be the rare occasion that someone would need an alternative because they cannot use cannabis for various reasons - this is just an example of the how's/why's I feel it's appropriate to at least allow some discussion of these compounds here. I do understand and appreciate your concerns, Puma - and I am grateful that you would speak your mind about such things, this is what these forums are for. In the big picture though, I do not think that there will be much need for discourse on these topics, because like I said I just think that majority of members here feel the same way as you do when it comes to these 'iffy' compounds. Thanks to you and roy for putting this topic up.

Hey no worries, thought I'd just share my thoughts, and no I'm not one for censorship either. And I agree Roy that much (if not all!) of the drugs or plants used these days were essentially research chemicals at some point in time! I guess I didn't state the whole picture, I am mainly against these new stimulants. I think some of them are incredibly dangerous, frankly. I was worried for my life on 6-APB. I took it around 7/8 one eve, had a fun few hours. The fun part lasted a few hours...but the stimulation remained. I went to bed at 7 AM and tried to sleep (I had an 11 hour shift in a very busy pub at 12!). Sleep wouldn't come. My heart was pounding incessantly. Despite lying still it was like I was running at a good pace. I was seriously worried for my heart and for me. I'm not one who freaks out on things, or gets into negative mind spaces...but this felt physically very dangerous and I will never ever take it again, and I would suggest people dose with it (if it even is as advertised!) with extreme caution. Needless to say my shift at work was a disaster and I had to leave four and half hours in...resistance was futile. NRG is another revolting one to be avoided at all costs. Research psychedelics are a different matter. 4-AcO-DMT is great material...it feels incredibly clean and smooth on the body and mind, and at high doses is very visionary indeed. I had a really intense experience with a high dose of this before Christmas, that was both utterly horrible, and very profound. I experienced what it was like to exist in a poisoned body, close to death. I felt revolting...I smelled repulsive, I looked repulsive, I even tasted repulsive, I was offensive to myself on multiple sensory levels. I was coming down with the flu at this point I think which may have affected this state, but I was under emotional and university stress and had been neglecting things like diet, exercise, fresh air and nature, and this chemical made me aware in a highly non subtle fashion that I needed to take better care of myself. And this is exactly what I have strived to do. I don't find 4-AcO-DMT to be a complete replacement for mushrooms personally, unlike some (for me, good mushrooms just have a special magical something) but it is definitely worthwhile and interesting material. 4-Ho-MiPT/4-AcO-MiPT and 4-Ho-MET in particular also seem to get consistently great reviews across the board for the most part, and I would be very interested in sampling these one day. 5-MeO-DMT is also sold as a research chemical, although I believe that is a normal part of human biochemistry, like DMT and bufotenine. Very powerful stuff that deserves some serious respect, but also fascinating material.

Thanks for the Info Ban, Ya see, that is what I am trying to do, find out which are good and which to stay away from.  If you did not like it chances are I will not like it.  I have heard good and bad about the spice stuff but it cost so much you might as well buy weed.  I will check out the other stuff and let the people know what I think of it.  I seem to have a love affair with the mushroom.  Safe and happy,  a little short time wise but there is always next week. Attaining the state of Bliss is a wonderful experience. Best to all,  cinderpath

I would always use caution with the "research" chemicals, as Erowid calls them.  The only one I've been very interested in is 4-Aco-DMT(O-Acetylpsilocin, 4-acetoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine). Very interesting experience Bana, thanks for sharing.

Hi Fallout, I thank you for your concern and I agree with you.  I would like to get the one you mentioned and also some of the 2cI.  I will avoid the 6-APB for I was told it is not that good.  But I am interested in 4-AcO-DMT and 2C-I  and one guy gave me a couple of others ones.  I will check them out or erowid and I always appreciate when people tell me watch out for this or that.  I think will pass on the Spice for I heard is not that good and almost cost as much as weed. I'll let ya know how everything goes.  Getting it is a hassle, got to open an account and a bunch of red tape but I will do what it takes.  I am glad I found out about them. I think some of this will make for great plant food, it is not against the law as long as you do not consume it or intend to consume it so I will use it for plant food.  Guess that would be similar to fish food. Nice talking to ya Fallout,  cinderpath

Hello everyone first post so hello! A friend reminded me about this forum, I found it just after my first and only flood dose with iboga then forget about it, I have some expereince with a lot of rc's and some after my flood dose so thought what better way to say hello! I like bancopuma swore of those stimulating rc's after some dirty experiences with 6-apb, but post bad comedown I swear a lot lol I swore off iboga at the end of my experience but here I am lol. My first expereince with a 100mg 6apb pellet was excellent, just like mdma. excitement euphoria joy, great expereince but then when I tried it a few weeks later this lasted 2-3 hours then was left with a hellish comedown, tried it again then the same thing happened so wont be buying it, but the same thing happened with my experiments with mephedrone and methylone. amazing first few expereinces then hellish comedown, something you dont get with psychedelics but I do love the social aspect of these chems but have the sense not to take them so often. Im sure Jonathan ott said with mdma it is a waste taking it more than 2 times in a year as the magic goes, exact same thing happens with the chems ive mentioned in my experience but those few times can be special so if I ever got the chance of some mdma or methylone or mephedrone I would and save it for a special occasion, though I probably would avoid 6-apb tbh 2ci for me can be great for social situations like peruvian torch cactus but recently I had a high dose of roughly 50mg combined after the peak with 70 mg of another new chem methoxetamine which became quite a deep entheogenic healing expereince. It showed me all the work I done before iboga and all the work I done after iboga and how id let that good work slide, basically a deep reminder of what Ive learnt and how I can continue the good work I started, a great healing expereince. I understand peoples negative views towards rc's but some can provide healing and remind yourself of lessons learned, and be a whole lot of fun too. The stimulating ones can be great for social bonding, moderation is key. Oh meant to say roy a lot of people have reported negative expereinces with 4-meo-pcp but theres hardly any negative expereinces with methoxetamine and there similiar chems, only negative experiences ive read has been people overdoing it. Its also the only chem ive taken that gave similiar visual effects to iboga, not visions etc but the way it afectd light reminded me of iboga, the flashing lines with light I expereinced, hope that helps!

Thanks for the info sturdyfalcon75, this is a new area to me, so the more info the better. I certainly would like to hear any experiences, roy d! Peace guys

Hi sturdyfalcon75.  I read a bunch of nice reports on methoxetamine.  I tried it myself, first time I did 90 mgs over about 2-3 hours and it lasted about 6 hours or so.  I have a large tolerance to ketamine, though.  Anyways, I didn't go too deep, but it lasted a long time.  It was pleasant but not as immersive as ketamine.  Perhaps I didn't do enough but I wanted to be cautious.  I am not sure because I can do like 3-4 grams of k in a night to get where I want to go, but of the mxe, I am not sure I am willing to risk trying to get there with an unresearched chemical.  It was a nice buzz I suppose, but I didn't get too much from it yet.  I will give it another shot when I have more time.

Hello folks, Ive only tried ketamine a few times at low doses so I have no tolerence issues but also not much to compare it with, methoxetamine combined with 2ci was an amazing deep healing introspective trip. I took it just after the peak of the 2ci. The afterglow was amazing from that night lasted a good week, really felt like id taken ayahuasca or something felt great all week. I understand your concerns gratefuldad but my expereinces with it so far have been very positive, unlike other rc's

Everything ive read on Methoxetamine makes it sound like it could be a very theraputic experience. Ego-destroying is what im reading amongst other things. Only thing that would put (is there a rule for talking in 3rd person here - i may aswell to be on safe side) me off is that 'my cat' bought some MPDV and was too scared to try that, as dosages were in the 10-20mg range. Well apparently Methoxetamine is very similar in that its active in anything over 10mg, and some people report strong experiences on even 25mg. Well, they sell capsules here in england (legal plant food) for 35mg. Would people really trust there to be 35mg in that capsule?! Of something so powerful. Then my cat has his own scales, but i would then start getting paranoid that they werent working right. I think my cat would spend all his time fretting whether he had had an overdose, which would probably make it one hell of a scarey ride. The only research chem my cat did try was methylone, and it was a very positive experience. Methoxetamine sounds like the most intresting legal substance for a long time tho. Most my cat wouldnt bother with, but this one sounds very tempting. Sorry if the post came across really nobbish. Some sites are really strict about talking in 3rd person, others arent bothered.

Hi you guys, I want to thank you for all your input.  Like I said I only done one RC and want to avoid the bad ones.  I have so on order and can't wait until I get them.  It is a shame that at first they are wonderful then it's not so great with a hellish hangover.  That is one thing I want to avoid.  I am going to avoid 6-APB and try the 4-AcO-DMT and 2CI. On this site they don't talk about SWIM which is nice.  But if it is kind or hush hush you can always say a FOF or friend or a guy I used to know.  This really is a great forum it is nice to see all the new people.  I hope you all find what your looking for. Best to all,  cinderpath

Howdy Folks, I tried some 2C-I a while back and I would say skip it.  There is no high to it and it has a rough come up for 2 hrs then nothing at all.  I felt speeded up and took a Xanax to relax.  Save your money and do something that is enjoyable. Of course that's just me, if you guys have some favorites please let me know what they are. Best to All,  cinderpath

i would love to lay my hands on some 4MeoPCP.

gonna do K tonight. last time i've done K was in high school, so i've pretty much forgotten what it feels like. 100mg IV, a person that slams 250mg and pisses himself unconscious suggested, so I assume 70mg would be a reasonable starter. now, idk if you guys heard all the hype about this novel K analogue - methoxetamine, but if nothing else, seems to have helluva recreational value. a K-like dissociative with a prolonged effect and a mu-affinity on par with morphine. curious.. anybody having any firsthand experience with the said compounds?

Wait for GratefulDad to get back from tour and I'm sure he'll chime in on MXE. Or you could talk to damn near anyone in Nexus chat, they went nuts for it a few months ago. Just be very careful with dosing, I've talked to people who have overdosed on it and it sounds quite unpleasant. <3

Methoxetamine is okay, but if you like ketamine, it definitely pales in comparison.   MXE lasts much longer but doesn't take you near as deep in the suggested doses.  Even my friends who have done a large amount agree it doesn't take you as deep.  Re-dosing makes it last very long, so if one does dose too high, it takes a good bit until you'll come down.  It makes me a bit more talkative and gives somewhat psychedelic thoughts, but the visuals are nowhere near as good as ketamine.  As for IM K, 100mgs is a pretty nice dose.  I can probably do 2-300 mgs IM, but that is a deep hole.  Snorted, it probably takes me more like a half gram to a gram, with tolerance.  Start off small with ketamine and work your way up, if you're unsure, but it's pretty safe and it doesn't last but an hour or two with much that intensity.  Also, re-dosing works pretty well with ketamine.  If it lasted longer I might say be careful but it's pretty physically safe.

Personally I don't think MXE is any lesser of a tool than ketamine...they're just different and should be approached as such. I think maybe ketamine may be more useful in certain circumstances or for certain people, but MXE definitely has its place. On Saturday night I had my most intense therapeutic experience on a drug that wasn't Iboga (although it felt very Ibogaesque at the time). This was MXE and a little pinch of mushrooms together. I went into some intensive therapy space after we had all called it a night and I tried to go to sleep. Wasn't fun, but ultimately very rewarding, got confronted with a lot of stuff I needed to, things that have produced real life change in the now. It also seemed to cure me of my raging insomnia that I've had lately, so I've kinda got respect for this stuff. And even with low doses, it provides a superb afterglow, again Ibogaesque but shorter lived, and I don't remember ketamine having this.

For me, ketamine just works better, even with that lasting stuff Bancopuma is speaking of.  Ketamine has gotten me to places that I have only been on iboga, LSD, and mushrooms.  MXE I have only done a handful of times, and perhaps with my tolerances to nearly everything, I just needed to go deeper, but the trip was much less pleasant in more ways than that.  The overall feel leaves me feeling kind of wired and my mental space stretches kind of thin.  It's not too bad for a few hours, but it just doesn't do for me what it does for many of the folks who enjoy it.  I am also super insensitive it phenethylamines, as well, so it could just be my wiring.  I definitely get a bunch more insight from ketamine, and the overall trip is deeper and more fun, for me.  My other friends, who have done a lot of the MXE, definitely prefer ketamine.  I'm not saying methoxetamine is bunk, or not worth a try for people who are into research chemicals, but it definitely doesn't do it for me like the illegal stuff..