Good Day to all fellow freakazoid beings

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Happy you're here! If I can do this thing so can you.  I haven't had an opiate in over a month, but am on Zoloft and use benzos sparingly (for work and sleep) and am in an alright place.  It keeps getting a little better.  I know deep down I'll be off of all the shit....it is just a matter of time. marlo_learns....how fitting.  I was ready for years, but didn't know how.  Then the doc's said Suboxone was this miracle drug; hogwash.  Maybe for detox and that's about it. Good Luck Man.

Hello and welcome aboard marlo_learns! Pull up a log and warm your toes by the fire, we look forward to learning more about you and sharing with each other...don't like to be so brief but I have slacked a lot lately and am catching up welcoming our new friends. Glad you are here friend, and if you stick around and engage I think you will enjoy it here - hope to see you around, again very good to have you! Cal

You sound like you have done your research, you sound like you are really ready to be done, and I am sure if you stick to your guns, and be ready for some possible unpleasantness, that within a few weeks you can be done with that crap and on your way to feeling much better and free.  It's a difficult road, even with the iboga, but it is so worth it.  A lot of people come to iboga looking for a miracle, and expecting to go through a few day trip and come out clean and feeling great.  While that can happen, more likely than not you'll get a huge reduction on your acute withdrawal, a good discount on your PAWS, and will recover much faster than you would without the iboga.  So stick around, we wish you well on your journey, and just know we are here to help with any questions or even just to just lend an ear if/when you hit any rough patches.  Our community has a fairly close knit group, compared to the iboga community as a whole, so we tend to be a bit more helpful than some of the other places you may come across.  But that, by no means, means you should only do your research here.  So, with that said, welcome to Iboga, and I hope you find some comfort in our little family here.  Best wishes!

Thank you very much Cal and G-Dad for the warm welcome.  I'm now 7 days and 16 hours from my flood.  Can't wait!!!      I'm doing my 2nd "clean out" tomorrow of my colon/intesttines with castor oil/magnesium citrate in preparation.  Other than that, I'm not drinking any alcohol or taking any substances (other than morphine to ward off withdrawals).  If anyone has any other recommendations for the next 7 days prior to my flood, I sure would appreciate it.  I'm really glad to be here and I'll definitely post how my "treatment" went after I get back from Central America.

Hey marlo_learns, I hope all goes well with your flood and I am looking forward to hearing about it...hopefully you'll follow through and post your experience.  So although I have been off of the subs for almost 3 months (opiates almost 2), I am/was struggling and ended up abusing benzos quite badly.  I stopped cold turkey last Friday and started to feel the ass kicking Wednesday morning.  I still consider myself 7 days clean as I haven't put any substances in and let me tell you...it feels damn good.  I am still experiencing a combination of mild PAWS & mild benzo w/d.  I have had a few beautiful moments coming back into "reality" if you will.  I have not had 7 days clean since 2005.  I definitely didn't consider suboxone clean (for myself) and looking back on it I am beginning to see that it is actually some hardcore shit.  The fact that I rolled over from a high dose of methadone and was somewhat comfortable on it in 4-5 days says it all. A friend of mine who is still on 8mg of sub told me he'd give anything to be in my shoes.  Although it felt good to hear that, I feel his pain.  He was put on 16mg sub initially from a 20-25 per day norco habit.  If you think about that it is rather ridiculous.  Also, the treatment center that he went to is nationally renowned and they recently shut their sub program down without saying why and he is now forced to go to some high cost shady clinic where he has to pee in a cup every week.  Mine was all office based and I only had to see my doc 4 times a year paying $120 per visit.  Suboxone is out to replace methadone and unfortunately this means adopting some similarities to methadone clincis; of course most done clinics do offer sub maintenance, pretty soon they just won't offer methadone anymore.

Flood tomorrow morning at 8:00am.  Can't wait!!!!!     Ibeginagain rocks...  these guys/gals are wonderful.   I'll post more in about 48 hours.  Wish me luck!

Good luck and no matter what happens you can get and stay clean, no doubt.  I had to fight for it but am now on the other side to the extent that if I use it would be making a bad decision rather than the effect of any withdrawal.  I never even imagined getting to this point....couldn't even fathom after 7 years of hell.  Two weeks strong and feelin' good.  Came off of everything including the SSRI I had started and now I realize that I absolutely do not need to be medicated. I hope you come out the other side feeling good and are able to enjoy the beautiful Costa Rica scenery.  If you don't feel so great just give it time.  As much as I used to hate hearing this, it's the truth....time is the best healer. POSTIVE VIBES YOUR WAY

Good luck in your journey, marlo_learns. Take care!

Can't believe it 30 hours after my last dose of morphine and I've had no withdrawals.  This provider is pretty darn respectable and they say I really shouldn't do the ibogaine until in withdrawal.   Unbelievable... come all this way and no withdrawals after 4.5 years of suboxone and then 5 weeks of about 60 mg of morphine a day....  maybe tomorrow I'll get withdrawals.  Weird and frustrating.

Morphine can take a minute to wear off.  I wouldn't expect full withdrawal until 36+ hours after your last dose.  Although, you may still just have some of the sub still hangin around in there.  If you don't start getting bad withdrawal soon, maybe you'll luck out and just have it easy..

Just took first test dose - 3g - at 1am mountain time.  See you guys & gals on the other side!

Sending good healing vibes your way!!!  Good luck!  May you have a "Bwiti'ful" experience!

Yep, had a helluva experience...  does 33mg of hcl sound right (like 30mg + 2 boosters directly afterwards due to some withdrawals)   I believe that's what they gave me because I was on suboxone for so long prior.  I was in bed for like 36 hours - crazy trip of all these pictures/photos/wall hangings of ancient artifacts kept coming up.   Anyway, two days later (since getting up out of bed) and I'm knocked the fuk down!  I mean major fatigue, rough balancing while walking, and finally just stopped seeing all the splintering lights around windows.   God I hope I'm better by Monday cause I can't work like this.   However, I am living opiate free for the first time in 14+ years (last morphine tab was 8/24 @3:00).   I believe Iboga worked for the purpose which I sought it.   Just gotta regain strength/stamina.      Again these guys and girls at Ibeginagain are phenomenal.  Most of you who have done any research on treatment facilities have almost certainly heard of Eric/Lex.  They've done over 1000+ treatments combined....  so the experience factor with these guys are huge.   No matter what the issue or ailment, they've already been through that 100 times.   Their vomict % is less than 5% due to Lex's protocol of cleansing/eating during the weeks prior to treatment.  They tell me I'll continue to feel better every day for the next 3-4 weeks.  Can't wait, just need at least 50% more by Monday!! Thanks to all who responded to me thread!

HELL YEAH!  I hope yours holds up to be one of the rare successful suboxone detox floods.  I have read many accounts of people on sub who did not find what they were looking for.  Hang in there.  Anyway, it sounds like you have the discipline to do all of the right things to ensure ongoing sobriety.  Me, I need 12 step support, but that's just me. Hopefully when you start feeling good you can post all of the details as well as a trip report.  Your experience may really help those on suboxone who come around looking for information.

Well I've hit my one week anniversary of no more opiates after 14+ years - 8/24/01.  I ended up really receiving my flood dose on Sunday and woke up Monday.  Therefor, I'm basically 4 days post treatment.  I still have sneezing...  but no craving or anything close to wanting any sort of min-altering substances.  My balance is still not right and I am still suffering with fatigue too.  Although it is continuing to improve with every passing day.  I also still have some light tracers in the morning/evening times when sun is coming up or going down - weird eh??   I have no doubt in my mind though that I will never take suboxone again, no matter what...   and that was the whole objective!    Thanks for the support guys.    Also my treatment provider gave me a total of approximately 37mg ibo (including two boosters).    I also have another booster here at home 130 micrograms?   I thought about taking it today, but I have to work on Tuesday and there's still no way I could work today.  So I'll have to figure out whether it should be take sooner or later.    I think the reason my recovery/healing process is taking longer than I hoped because I took suboxone for so long (4.5 years at 4mg+) and became the most slothful/totally sedentary dude you'd ever meet when getting on subox...  so I didn't have a whole lot of strength/stamina prior to Iboga.     Hope everyone is doing well.

Congrats on a successful treatment, Suboxone is a tough one, and it is great to hear you spit out the hook... My advice would be to wait on taking the booster - give yourself a while to absorb everything and begin to integrate - also you need to catch up on sleep and let your mind and body rest, your spirit as well. The booster ain't going anywhere and you will know when to take it. Start getting back into a diurnal sleep pattern and let the fatigue eliminate from your groggy system, sometimes boosting too soon can exacerbate fatigue and insomnia,etc. as to the 'tracers/trails' this is very common and they happen just as you said - at times of little or no sunlight. Peculiar but totally normal. This could last another week or so, so do not be alarmed. Well done, glad to see a victorious session! Many blessings and best wishes to you and yours!

Your going to make it R2S. Youre going to be a success story and your going to tell us about that success. I am where you where months ago. even though the Bupes a bitch to concore the Ibogaine has got to take a chunk out of the punishment opposed to just stepping off that poison cold turkey. When things do get better and youre out enjoying life please dont forget us.

I'm horribly sorry to tell everyone that I'm 90% sure that my Ibogaine treatment failed.  I'm fatigued more than I ever knew was possible, sneezing incessantly, diarrhea, and believe I'm in full withdrawal - I am now 6 days post Iboga (37mg for 170lb dude).      I just took my booster an hour ago.  I've had no problems sleeping, so I'm not concerned that the booster may reduce my sleep.   My balance is good now.  However, my fatigue is so bad that I can't even bring myself to drive a new car home from the dealership that I ordered 3 months ago.  I have been waiting for 3 months to get this custom built Audi and I just don't have the energy to drive 30 min there and back... just not possible.  That's how bad I feel. Whataya gonna do...   I thought I might have found a short-cut through withdrawals, but it was not meant to be.  From what I heard at subsux dot com, many who tapered to miniscule amounts prior to quitting coldturkey, usually feel this horrendously heavy fatigue for approximately 1 - 3 months.  I must now bear the cross I built.  Hopefully it will not last for several months on end.  But this I know with all my heart, I will never allow myself to take suboxone again ever.

You feel the exact same way I do about never taking suboxone again, that's good.  I went through some hell to get clean and refused to touch an opiate since the day that they came out of my system, June 30, 2012.  I used benzos and high quality cannabis for a while and it helped a ton....I mean I was covering up the w/d 80-90%.  You had mentioned before that benzos don't have appeal for you, therefore ativan or clonazepam may help you for the next couple of months, but that is longer than I would recommend using them.  Kratom is another option that would be more safe than any SAO. My problem was that I began to abuse the benzos real badly (I like them).  I had to come off of them and I only experienced moderate benzo w/d (coupled with some PAWS) (it wasn't fun) and now 3 weeks later I am in a pretty good place.  It took about 7 weeks total until I was functioning fairly well.  At this point, I don't feel I would need to flood again for addiciton interruption since I am ok.  I actually don't even believe that iboga is any kind of answer in and of itself as it takes much more to get on the path to clean living.  How about lifestyle changes and a deep desire that can only come from within. Nobody, and I mean nobody knows how to use iboga for addiction interruption when it comes to sub.  I don't buy into the treatment centers that claim that they do, although there may always be the exception when it actually does work for someone.  They likely wouldn't have been on sub as long as you or I and at the extreme doses (at least my beginning dose was 32mg / day). The person I worked with informed me that he detoxed people after me and it went off without a hitch.  I never even asked if the people were on sub, but I know the answer is a resounding no.  I was upset when I heard him say that.  My flood attempt may've had some failings on my part, but looking back I truly believe there was no way it was going to work and I am glad it didn't.  It wasn't meant to be and as youu said I had to bear the cross I built.  In retrospect, I am glad I went through the pain and relapse (benzos) as it made me stronger and more aware of the nature of my addiction.  I would not have had it any other way, hindsight being 20/20. Some might say it is just the PAWS post iboga....bullshit.  You are correct that it is withdrawal and I generally expected this after reading that you went from the high dose of 4mg and switched to an SAO for such a short period of time.  It is withdrawal and I know EXACTLY how you feel.  Let me know if I can help.  PM me if necessary.  I will not give too much advice, but can share some experience including some things that have worked for me as well as what hasn't. Hang in there, you have support and people rooting for you.

Thanks Light, I really appreciate your response.   So how long did you have the withdrawals, especially the extreme fatigue part??

Well I had 2 weeks off of work where I was worthless.  I went back to work and used kratom in stimulant doses for a week (still on benzos), so it was still there.  Then I really let the benzo thing take off and for my weird brain the benzos actually helped get me moving, although I embarrassingly fell asleep at work a few times.  This went on for a few weeks and when the benzos came out the fatigue was gone, I was left with anxiety and restlessness.  This has since subsided and I have been forcing myself to workout a lot and go out to NA meetings and hang out with people.  This has been invaluable for me.  The fatigue isn't bad at this point, however I am a bit lethargic at times still, but no more than half the human race

Recovery really is a process.

Yeah, I know.   I'm mostly bummed out that I'm not going to be prepared for work this week.  I can't imagine working at this moment...  seemingly inconceivable.   But it sounds like I should start to feel a little better within a few weeks...  so I guess I'll hang my hat on that and hope for the best.

Not sure what you do, (attorney maybe)?  Go see a doctor and get checked out and take some more time off.  You will need it.  I made the mistake of thinking I would be alright at work and ended up taking 7 days off and I am an engineer at a large (and the only) automaker is SC.  Good thing I had an understanding boss and a doctor who wrote me out. Do whatever you feel is right though, but please ask for help anytime from myself or anyone with experience for that matter. Good Luck, you will get to the other side.

No, these things just come to me when I am centered in my being.  That is why I am way more into mysticism than shamanism.  I was taught by a mystic who could read my thoughts word for word.  He told me that I would come into my own eventually, with some work on self.  I see auras, feel peoples energy, etc, but that isn't important. Coming into love, service and compassion is.  Before having a spiritual experience (with no entheogens) I was a skeptic.  Not anymore.  There is much more going on than our five senses can gather and it DOES NOT take entheogens to come into contact with that. Only problem is with awareness comes sufferring, hence addiction.  That is much more powerful than myself and I need spiritual guidance to have any chance since there are a lot of outside agencies (both in the physical and the spiritual) hell bent on keeping us from awareness. I love metaphysics.

Hi Ready, I have been off the forum for a few day, been having medical problems.  Light gave ya some good advice and tips.  I have heard the story many times before, sub is just a monster.  I have heard of PAWS lasting several months, you gave it a good shot and it often does not work the first time.  Use what you learned and do it again. Best,   cinderpath

I am doing better 19 days post discontinuance of morphine (6 weeks)/Suboxone (4.5 years)/Hydrocodone (10years) - all consecutively, never missing a single day of opiates...   and I'm feeling semi-normal.  Sleep is not right...  waking up at night and even if I get back to sleep, I'm waking up every morning between 4:30 - 5:30am.    I used to wake up at 7 - 7:30 everyday before stopping opiates AND Ambien too.   I"m now taking valium to help me sleep and also have taken it 2-3 times total for anxiety.   I also tried smoking one puff of some medical grade mary jane, as well as a shot of rum too.  None of the three helped alleviate any of my symptoms of restlessness/built up energy in my chest/anxiety and frustration with not getting better quicker.   I started walking a lot more (multiple times a day) and getting out of the house more period - this actually HELPED with these symptoms.  It was on day 16 that my physical symptoms of fatigue/no stamina ended abruptly and immediately became horrible psych/anxiety/restlessness/frustration.  It was crazy.  I felt crazy and wanted to stop the suffering any way possible.   Thank God I didn't have access to any opiates, which I gave to my wife prior and she refused to give me any even though I desperately begged for a tiny amount of morphine.  However, even as bad as it was and as insane as I felt, I NEVER WANTED SUBOXONE ever!   I know I will never take that drug again.  Today I'm at work, being cross-examined in court and I've made a couple mis-steps, had to retract some statements and correct myself.   My mind is far from sharp right now and I can only do so many things at once...  still maxine_climbs in the brain 19 days after discontinuance of all opiates.  This is just an fyi for those who may be thinking of embarking on a similar journey...  and it is a LONG, challenging journey so far, but still worth it IMO.

Glad to hear you're hanging in there!  I know it's tough, but you're so close to being done, and recovering fairly well, so keep up the good work!  In a few months you'll look back and feel so great you did it, and you have the whole world to enjoy again!  Freedom is a beautiful thing!  Good luck and best wishes to you!

RTS, I'm glad to hear you are managing. Your comment about your court performance made me think how stong we are as humans (and more so as addicts) throwing ourselves back in to our responsibilities and surviving even if we are suffering terribley on the inside because we have to. I can almost feel your pain only because I've been there too. I really appreciate your updates because I am embarking on the same journey (currently in Sub reduction) and hearing from folks like you are what I need to plan in the hopes of minimizing my recovery after Iboga. Hang in the

Wow, how the mighty have fallen.    I got home yesterday from work and had to lay in bed for 2+ hours.    Today, I'm just ending my hearings and I'm completely beat!   Feel like I've run a marathon.   Will need to lay down after work again today.   This fatigue is ridiculous, but at least I'm experiencing none of the anxiety/restlessness/crazy psych energy like the two days prior.          Day 20 - keepin' on keepin' on...

Hi Ready and All, The last Exp 2 yrs ago I came out of it with severe burning/pins and needles feeling in my feet - hurt like hell, guess the ms I was taking acted to kill that pain.  Anyway, I was sick  and it was rough and I broke down and reached for one and I was going to take 1/4 tab or so and said to myself do you really think that little bit is going to stop this pain, I was so glad I did not take it. Kicking is hard, that is why people risk life, limb and freedom to avoid w/d.  Your doing Great Ready.  When you feel like using try and use your Exp as an reason Not to use, remember the pain and suffering your going through. Best to ya,   cinderpath

Something just kicked me upside my head (maybe an epiphany): When I replied to "fritzerman" on his post "Day 31 and a little progress". We need to realize that the "blahs" is largely a result of our systems being so used to artificial stimulants. I shared with him regarding getting our endorphin system going again after prolonged opiate use. Personally, my endorphin system was basically shut down due to my prolonged opiate use (some of which I realize was being converted into morphine). We forget that our bodies' natural generation/creation of endorphins is actually a built in morphine generator! I do know of people that I care for that actually physically hurt themselves and they say that they do it "just to feel alive again". When I realized that when I go ahead and allow my back pain to have its' way with me and let the pain kick in, my endorphin system began to kick in and I can actually bear the pain. Our bodies actually have built in "natural morphine"/pain killer generators! I know that I don't give it much of a chance to kick in like maybe some of you fellow freakazoid and hopefully ex-opiophiles. This should probably be basic to all of us but I know that when I'm in pain, I tend to want instant gratification. Our bodies' internal self diagnostics and automated calibration, pain killer, and repair system is spectacular, we just need to give it a chance. I have worked on and designed portions of large computer systems that actually can run self diagnostics, automated calibration, and repair themselves. These types of mainframe computer systems are still the size of a small room today (2012); yet we take for granted the spectacular autonomous "diagnostics and repair" that the human body is capable of; when we cut our fingers or hurt our back." I still have chronic pain, yet it truly becomes bearable when my endorphins kick in. The design that went into the human body is certainly amazing.  If we so desire, we even have a built in system to generate a "natural high"; that would be.. our "endorphin system". AND- there are no real bad side effects! Man!, all this thought is making me want to go running and rock climbing again! Ok, I might fall and hurt my side - (I suppose that is a bad side effect, I'll be careful )

I realize that my endorphin system is still there, alive and well when I do 30 minutes of hard cardio, 20 minutes of hard weight-lifting and 10 minutes in the sauna.  It is a great hour and the rush continues for a good 30 minutes afterward. Music sometimes brings them flooding forth in waves and so does deeply connecting with others. For now, I spend most of the day feeling empty, but that's okay because the body is slowly healing itself.  I may not notice it from day to day, but I definitely do from week to week. Yeah, the human body is an amazing thing.  I like the term "innate intelligence", widely spoken of by chiropractors.

Cheers Light! And Happy Friday to all; Besides the body being amazing, since you mention music, I almost forgot how amazing the mind is also , The mind itself can trigger endorphins just from staying still, meditating and listening to certain types of music that resonates with your soul and spirit. I discovered these instrumental pieces by a fellow named "Tim Janis - Janis with an 'i' " that I discovered to be spot on for me. These may be corny for some but for me it really triggers my endorphins and after good relaxation session with this music, my whole perspective really changes. I think that we really need to be aware that the society that we live in today can really take a toll on our very beings. One of the most important lessons from my "secondary visions" during my flood is the is that I, like many or most of you have been so robbed of our innocence. This very rude reality in itself can begin to shut your "natural high" system down. Thus, we begin to seek ways to turn it back on. Over 30 years ago, I discovered that cocaine helped me to stay up longer and it also began to simulate the "natural high" that I had lost throughout the years (I was in my 20's). Yet, only to find out that it destroyed my finances and my life. After I realized that it actually brought me to severe depression, I actually managed to quit cold turkey. After a few years of being clean, I (so conveniently) had a bad spinal injury. I then discovered morphine and then opiates. This was prescribed (so were all good right?  ) and it actually brought memories of the "natural high" I was able to get from running and just the innocence of childhood life. I was "robbed" again. If you can think back to your childhood and remember how you felt when you first heard a certain song or the thrill of your first bicycle ride or maybe your first sight and hearing of the ocean; This is just an example of how your endorphin system was intended to work. "You mean to tell me that we were created to occasionally get high?"  Yes, I think so...however, more so naturally. Please my friends, do not let yourself be robbed. Think back, There is a better natural and cleaner way. Think of this song/music as a piece from your Maker to you. He loves you all my friends. (appropriate title: "Ever I love you") http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNHi0b7PKAE

oops, wrong song. Here is the right one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZItHAG_TSIE

3 weeks later and still sneezing all day long, stuffed up nose, diarrhea, maxine_climbs brain, and can't sleep past 5:30 am, no matter how late I go to bed, how much I exercise I do, or how much sleeping meds I take.    Frustrating...  waiting for the first day to NOT feel bad.

Hi Ready, I detoxed from Ibo 4 times, morphine and heroin.  I believe you were off the sub for 6 weeks, right?  How much sub were you taking, I read a lot of posts and it is hard to remember exactly who took what, plus my memory is not a sharp as it used to be.  If your still sneezing I would think that it is the Sub for when I did the Ibo it seemed like the first 3 or 4 days were rough then the sneezing started.  Kinda like w/d except that it is not as severe as without Ibo, the sneezies would not start until the second week after a Very rough week doing a ct.   That has been my experience. I hate to see you suffer like this, for me it seems I when I tried to quit I could often go a week or two or four but it seems the w/d never left 100%.  It was not the sever ass kicking I got from the w/d that made me relapse but the looongg depression that set in and would last for months.  I would go use and in one minute I had Energy, of course this is so dangerous for the chances of getting hooked are Extreme.  I know a person who did a detox and had to start low doses like 5 mg of Perk and then did the second flood about 4 months later and has been happily ever after.  I am not saying you should go use even a 5mg for we know where that leads but rather to let ya know your not the only one.  In fact when I would be off for a month or I found myself in a state of....state of.....  being hypersensitive, yeah I could watch a cartoon like Bambi and almost start to cry, I could watch something bad on the new and the same thing.  I thought I was the only one that went thought that and heard similar stories on this forum. You know I heard your story about the Dr giving you Sub from so many people.  Some say the Dr has a steady customer no one ever said that the Dr told them it would be hard to get off.  Wishing you the best,   cinderpath

"Down with dope, up with hope!" Great job light and ready!  I am opiate free since last Christmas Eve!  7 weeks non smoker!    I have only one thing to say about that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rL9ihXiFAko

A Big Congratulations to both of you Lightswitchedon and marlo_learns!!!  roxine