Hello Im new to these Forums Help Pleeeeease!!!!!!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lou, welcome! First thing, you won't want to be on subutex/suboxone when you come to Iboga. Stay on a short acting opiate, H or anything else. The sub detox is ROUGH. (Nobu has a lot of good info on this!). I'm so glad you found Iboga, there is nothing like it in the world. You've been in rehabs and detox places, that shows you're serious about being done. Iboga can and will get you off H. If you have a good plan for what you'll be doing once clean, you can Stay off! Your hope is not misplaced. It takes three to four days to go through the experience, and about a week on top of that before you really want to go on about your business. Two weeks with no responsibilities, or even longer, is great if you can arrange it. Of course, everyone is different, but that's a good rule of thumb. You won't sleep for the first couple days, and you might have some sleeplessness for a month or so after, as well. There are things you can do the week before with your diet and vitamins that are beneficial, too. Have you found a sitter, or ibogaine yet? You'll want to get an EKG/ECG. Make sure your heart is okay, even if you feel healthy. It's no joke that ibogaine can kill you if your heart has problems. When are you thinking of doing this? Again, welcome. I'm really glad you're here. This is a good and supportive place, and I'm sure you'll hear from others soon. peace and music, Tia

Well, there is loads to learn about, but I can tell you I did ibogaine for a morphine addiction 13 days ago, and I am feeling pretty much normal.  The trip isn't scary or terribly difficult for me, and I rather enjoy the ibogaine experience.  So I got a couple weeks of minor sniffles, some goosebumps and a little insomnia.  It's nothing compared to any other detox, clinical or not.  I never once felt that I wanted to jump out of my skin, or use, and I have no cravings or desires for opiates, even with 4.5 30mg morphine sulfate pills sitting right here.  I also did iboga back in 04 to kick methadone, and it kept me clean for 5 years until I injured myself and had to use pain killers again.  Even then it took a couple months before I was addicted again.  Anyways, you've come to the right place.  If you have any specific questions feel free to ask away.  There is loads of info on the net if you just want to read about different experiences.  Welcome to Ibogaine Club community!

Welcome Louise' glad to see you made it here' If you have questions and concerns just ask' there are many real good folks here that can put you into the correct space and also give you the added support you require to see this deed through' Take strenght in the knowledge you are on the road to being well now' You made the big step in that you have chosen "Change" embrace it' Wishing you all the best with much blessings love and light' Be Well! Nobu +

Thanks 4 ur support guys, so lovely to hear from u.. Tia I will add hun, that I am currently taking a shorter acting opiate and have been for the past 3 months once in that 3 mnths two mnth ago I attempted to go back on it, and wnt into precipitated withdrawals, and I followed Protocol. I was on Subutex, and then started to feel lethargic, like with all the replacements, im goin to make this short an sweet as my back is killing me, Ive just spent the last 45 mins writing a script here, explaining my circumstances, then touched the F**kin escape button by mistake, as i dropped the laptop, Im fuming, I just cant do it at the mo!!!  Basically Im ready for this, Ive had enough of going to and throw on these opiates, Ive had it with partying, I dont want it no more, ppl need me, I need me!!!! Ive made arrangments with a very nice chap, I wont say his name unless he allows me too, im just waiting for him to get back to me with a time, and then my journey begins, I was very nervous at first, but after reading some of u guys experiences, im blown away, and feel much better, not so anxious, so guys the nxt time ul be hearing from me will be after my Ibogaine experience, I cant tell u how much I want and need this Im in pieces, Ive tears running down my eyes, Im in such a mess, Ive no energy, I hate myself, for wot im doing, paying a fortune to keep myself relativly normal, now im lethagic an my spirit is gone!! completely!! I wont go into it but Ive had such a rough ride, like most of u on here, Ineed a break, Its so hard to come off opiates, it wasnt even my first drug of choice, I hated it, I used to smoke it to come down off of coke, I hated doin it, then before u knew it I had a habit, and thats over the last 7 yrs and I no longer have the desire to use any muck anymore, its a need to use it, to feel normal I dont party and I dont want to, I want me back, I want to get back to work, I want to feel normal, its an effort just to go to shops, please tell me its goin to be ok, using Ibogaine. Thanks guys

Man. I fucking hate typing all that shit and then *poof* it's gone cause I hit the wrong button or God just wanted a good laugh. I feel you on that one friend. Bro - your story, while certainly unique to you, is pretty typical for this kind of work....which is great news I might add. You sound like you have a good brain and a big heart. That you CARE is why you're hurting, but caring is good and the pain is telling you change is afoot. I am grateful you found our humble abode and welcome you to it with open arms and all sincerity. There's nobody fake here. We all realize the immediacy and seriousness of these problems - and I think we have more in common with one another than any other site on the web...cept maybe some kinky pron place, but nevermind that stuff. Anyone and everyone here will be glad to help out however we can. Sometimes just sharing our stories and experiences is so much more healing than we could have imagined. Please make yourself at home, for you are at home - and let us know how things go? Keep on the right track and let yourself feel this momentum. It's nothing short of magic! Blessings! ~Cal

Cheers cal, Thanks 4 that, its so nice, it give me reassurance, and thanks 4 making me feel welcome, I just cant wait, I have the treatmant on the 26th of March, I just cant wait, ant tips, on what i shud be doing from now til then, supplement wise, anything I want to do the rite thing.. Thank u x

The link I am giving you is from the Awakening in the Dream House site. There is really good basic preparatory info there. It's basically what I followed, add meditation and setting intent. http://www.awakeninginthedream.com/screening.html Hope this helps. Many find, and you may, too, that knowing you are approaching Iboga starts changes happening even before you take it. Listen to your body, allow yourself to be reflective, listen to that 'still, small voice'. Take care, T

Thank u all once again an thank u Tia, 4 the link. Ive got my date to when I start, and Boy!!! I am soooooo sooooo excited, excited because this nightmare that im in will be over!!!! I do realise there will be lots of hardwork still, I dont expect miracles, but thank goodness I wont experience serious withdrawals, like Ive done in the past, I know there will be some minor w/d's but Im sure Il deal with it, my mind is very open, wot also gives me hope is the fact I can come on here and spk to u guys, and ask 4 advice, Il be in my bed, with my evian water, some fruits and my laptop, I know there will be times when I will get emotional... Lots of meditation, and all the advice I can ask of this wonderful community, the warmth here is phenominal, the inspiration, the beautiful writing (Spread the Love I cant wait, and Im so hoping that It really does fix me, as i need fixing, but that comes from within, with the help of Ibogaine of course.. Theres so much I want to do with my life, and the only thing that is stopping me, is that, im under this cosh.. Stuck on these nasty, dreadful opiates, which r the hardest things to come off, oh what a stupid person ive been to ever get caught up it, "No I wont get addicted!!!" ... is what I used to say, "Im in control, this wont ever have me!!!!   Yeah rightyo!!!!!   oh it really angers me, there needs to be more Drug awareness 4 our Children, its scary, and the way the world is going, something DRASTICALLY, needs to happen Drug dealers need harsher penalties, simple!!!  but no, cos the Government will lose out bigtime!!!  Oh I cud go on and on, but I wont!!     On a positive note, Im so glad to be here, I cant tell u  all how much its gave me hope, I cant believe theres a light at the end of this Long F**king tunnel,I feel like im dreaming, its the withdrawals that im so scared of, i went in to full blown w/d's a couple of mnths ago, trying to get bak on Subutex from "H" and I knew the protocol, Ive done it a couple of times in the past, but this time was bloody different, I done it frm Methadone b4, and waited 36 hrs, and One of the times it was an absolute piece of p**s, and that was off of 45mls, the other time was 28mls, again I waited 36 hrs, if not longer, and I was rough 4 days... its crazy, our bodies react differently, at diff times, it just goes to show, the time that it was easy, coming off at that higher dose (45mls) I was in hospital, not medically assisted il add, it was easier I think due to being in a much diff environment, the person, who was in the bed next to me, was such a positive person, I just felt different!! So, I just cant wait til nxt friday, my journey begins, and theres an added bonus with the Ibogaine, as I keep reading, and hearing abt, I cant emphasize enough what this has done to me, its magical, I want to be free.. Thank u Ibogaine!!!   And thanks to everyone else, I feel as though I shouldnt get happy, as Ive been so unhappy, Ive never been so down in all of my Life, and Ive had some knocks, I wont go into my situation, but its sad, I honestly dont deserve it, and Ive never ever said that, cos most of  my misery has stemmed from my drug use, the usual crap that comes with it, being unreliable, even though u really dont mean to be, its down to the muck, but really down to myself, having bad relationships, and generally being miserable, oh apart from when I was high on coke, I was life and soul, or so I thought, I was everyones bestfriend, ppl pleasing, so desperately wanting peeps to like me, when now I realise that I am likeable, I am worthy, and Im a good person, and I can be reliable, as Ive proved, when I was stable, and had energy, even though I was on Subs!!!  Well I could be here 4 ever goin on abt the y's and how's, Ive done so much work on myself, during the time Ive been stable, but that dont last on these crappy opiate replacements the Drug agencies want to keep us on. Well Im going on a bit, but Im getting off my chest and it feels good, like I sed I am ready to live my life, away from the MANIA, just want to get rid of this F**King Heavy metal blanket thats covering me(Opiates!!)  Im so glad Ive got alot of insight into my own drug use, cos 4 years I thought that was the way it was meant to be, once ur on drugs, thats it, I never in a million years ever thoght I would evr kick the urge to use, and that was coke, that was my main prob, I couldnt kick it, id stop 4 a few days, and the cravings wud come, but I learned to recognise and understand the cravings, it was me, I hated me, I wasnt comfertable in my own skin, and that was because I couldnt kik the habit, and the anxiety from my childhood, going back to ur childhood, whilst clean (therapy) I mean, was great, I realised where the sadness came from, that lonely little girl, I cried and cried, it was so hard and painful, but it really helped, I gained so much confidence, and through being away from the environment, the temptation, I managed to prove to me, that I am nice,not false, I was being just me, but it takes time, we grow and learn, it doesnt just click over night, there was ups and downs, I relapsed and beat myself up, and then thought, no its bound to happen, I learned not to be too hard on myself, and learned from it, It was great to know I was finally on the road to recovery, and Ive been stuck on these Opiates, this is it now, im ready I can honestly say this is the most unhappiest ive ever been in my whole life like I sed earlier, thers a reason y, Ive had to stay on the Meth and Subs 4 the past few years, its only been the past few months that Ive had to switch to a shorter acting opiate cos of the lethargy that kicked in, as it does when u r on a script, and u r not using any other drugs illicitly, after the 6mnth mark, my tollerance goes down, well 4 me anyways and my body needs more, and the last thing I want to do is go up, so I switch, but Methadone was sooooo not an option, so u can imagine how its been, the fear of goin into another detox, the experiecne I had was awful, they treat alcoholics, and opiate addicts exactly the same, u get to rest up 4 a week, then u have to participate in groups no matter what, well thats stupid, as eveyones w/d's r diff, I was clucking to F**k still at 2weeks I was throwin up, i threw up in the dining area in front of everyone, and yet the staff, still wanted me to come into group, where I wanted to lay down, I was in pieces, I was there on my own accord 4 goodness sake, what did they think I was pretending, I could go home and lay in my own bed if I wanted, but I wanted this detox in comfort, the last straw was when i asked 4 a buscopan, (anti spasmodic) non opiate BTW, and the horrible nurse sed to me, this is typical junkie behaviour, pillpopping, well that was that, I veered.. so not great and Ive maintained since, that was 3 yrs ago, clean apart frm script, up untill 3 mnths ago, as it got unbearable the lethargy (needin to go up) So u can imagine wot ive been goin thru the last 3 mnths, knowing that im paying now to keep normal, buying shit, not knowing wot im getting, im not doin it to buzz, its just so ive energy, and now due to the anxiety, i no longer have it at all, im crying, I even tried the Subs again, and I mentioned earlier the experience i went thru, it was the worst case ive ever been thru, withdrawals were terrible, i almost called an ambulance, but I managed to get out of it, with sme S**T, i managed to get hold of, it scared the hell outta me, Im so desperate to come off it.. pls pray 4 me people Wow sorry If I went on one a bit, im so emotional, and all over the place, I dont talk u c, no one knows wot im goin thru, jst one person, I feel as though a weight has been lifted Anyways im signing out now, sorry if it doesnt make sense, I really lost it a few times, and this page keeps jumping up, its doin my head in, dont no if im the only one who experiences it!! Take care all Respect x

I don't think giving drug dealers harsher penalties will do anything to stop drug use, but rather cause more violence.  Other than that, I totally understand where you are at, how you feel, and what you want from Iboga, and believe me, it can give that to you.  You aren't gonna feel wonderful for a few weeks, but it sure beats a lifetime of numbing your existence.  I have been on both sides of the equation and believe me, being addiction free is much more fulfilling, but still not all fun and games.  I am sure you can make it through, and you sound like you are at the point you want the change bad enough, that you are willing to stick to it and get out from under addiction, with the understanding that the path is hard, but well worth the rewards.  I am hoping for the best for you!

Cheers 4 ur reply G, Re: Drug dealers, yeah I suppose by not giving drug dealers harsher penalties there may well be more violence!! If addicts dont have the drugs to supress thier ugly emotions, what happens then???,  I can c where ur coming from, so is the solution to Make Drugs leagal!!! Maybe!!, Freedom of choice!!...Just dont allow scum to deal in HARD Drugs and make money of of other ppl's misery, maybe the violence wud come from the fact that the Dealer cant have, and wont be able to have is flash car, or his synthetic lifestyle, at the expense of some poor mothers son just dying from an overdose, or a young girl, who has been attacked severley cos shes exposed, working on the street....  More Drugs awareness in schools is a defo, cos I can honestly say there was none when I was at school, but drug use wasnt as Rife as it is now, but there needs to be a massive Government campaign, loads more awareness, Y dont they do it!!!! wow its a very mad subject, but its very sad it wrecks peoples lives, and i think that any person who thinks that is ok, to earn money off of other peoples sadness have the morals of a Rat, Im talking abt Hard Drugs, thats in my opinion anyways, what would work to stop this madness, most, not all people who use Drugs in the first place, r depressed, most, not all, have had very traumatic childhoods, and use the drugs to supress these emotions, so maybe some serious intervention before things get ugly would help, others use Drugs Legal/ileagal just to chill, and experience trips, and have great jouneys, and that should be our choice! but hey we are not in an ideal world are we, its a very heavy subject, we can only learn from our experiences, and maybe use these to help others in the prevention of Hard Drug use..  All I know is that it wrecks lives, relationships... Everyone has the right to express opinion, I also think that alcohol can be the route to evil, and that is legal!!!!  Look at the destructiveness that comes from that stuff, Some are able to have a good relationship with booze, and look at Weed, I dont know any aggressive Smokers, if not abused to the point where its affecting ur mental state, then whats the harm, as long as there is no destructiveness like what u get with the hard muck, I know there are some harsh varieties out there, and some that has been tampered with, even better if u know the source. On that note, Il say goodbye Respect x

I think all drugs should be legal, and people responsible for their actions regardless of the drug they choose to take.  I believe an addict has all the responsibility that anyone else has, which is to not rob, steal, or kill, regardless of what substance they've ingested.  Ingesting a substance doesn't give anyone the right to harm/hurt others, so charge them for the crimes against others.  Deciding what someone can/should ingest should be up to that person.  Addicts need to take as much responsibility as anyone else.  I do agree that proper, factual drug data should be taught in schools and to children at an early age, rather than pumping children full of propaganda which just lessens the believability of those in charge.  If you lie to people all the time, they won't believe shit you say, so people need to stop playing the blame game and start taking responsibility for themselves.  Drug dealers never forced you to spend your money on drugs.  They are providing a service, just like a hooker, or a stripper.  One's morals should dictate what THEY do, not what OTHERS do. BTW, I had some pretty good dealers when I used heroin.  They'd give me deals, and give me free bags when I was real sick, with no money.  It was good customer service.  Some drug dealers don't give a shit about people, but some do.  Even if it's profit motivated, they still don't want to screw their clientele, and often like to look out for people who help provide their living. I believe the addict should take full responsibility for the choices they make, as anyone should be held accountable for their actions..

Who said that Drug Addicted Criminals, should have more leaway than anyother Criminal, of course they have to take responsibility 4 their OWN actions. But the Drug Dealer BTW, is a different story alltogether, they are like vultures, there is no way anyone, in my opinion could justify Drug Dealing, u cannot compare selling Hard Drugs, to selling Sweets or Clothes, a Drugdealer knows exactly the harm that will come to that person when he sells that bit of Heroin or Crack, or any other Hard drug. I knew plenty of NICE Drugdealers too, they were my BestFriend, especially, when I got paid, and  I got bail too, when my funds ran out, I wud also get tick, or a Freebie, cos they knew id be back, its called luring and Tempting u, hes keeping his/hers business going, how would u feel if ur nice Drug dealer gave a Freebie to ur Child, or Niece/Nephew, how does ur Mum or Dad feel about ur Nice Drugdealer, if hes that nice would he support ur habit. they want u 2 be thier Friend, so u can Recommend them on, I havn't remained pals with any of my Old Drug dealers, they don't want to be around me, as I can't make them money anymore. When they are making fortunes, on the back of other peoples misery, or on the back of an Overdose,or Heart Attack, cos lets have it rite, the Drug dealer can not tell u exactly, what is in that Rock, or bag of Heroin that u bought, so if it contains Anthrax, which at the present moment, is going about and taking the lives of many in Scotland and the UK, and christ knows where ever else, ask ur Drug dealing Pal, how he feels about that!  And I am talking about Hard Drugs that r Imported, and already cut with allsorts, to line thier greedy pockets, if they were really that NICE, y didn't they take up Social Work. Its easy money, very easy money!!!!, the most profitable of all, but comparing it to selling anything else, is ridiculous, these people, are hanging around School gates, enticing innocent, and some vulnerable children, our Children with FREEBIES. These HARD DRUGS cause absolute Destruction, I wouldn't be able to live with myself, if Id of given someone something back in the day, that had been contaminated, and Id had no idea of it, could you??

That's where I disagree.  I don't choose to demonize any drug.  See, plenty of folks can go out on the weekend, drink a few drinks, snort a little coke, eat a percocet, smoke a joint, whatever, and they don't turn into miserable addicts scrounging for every penny, just to get their daily fix.  Punishing these people for addicts behavior is exactly what prohibition does.  Not every drug dealer believes that they are causing misery and pain, and many of them are not.  Many are providing a quality product that makes lots of people happy and able to cope with life.  You say "to may to"  , I say "to MAH to".   The one causing themselves misery and pain, by being a non-functioning addict in need of desperate help, is the person who has let their habit take control.  If you look at statistics, the majority of people do not have these problems.  The number of people prone to addiction increases steadily with the population.  This would indicate a small portion of people will naturally become addicted.  Genetics plays a big role in whether someone will become an addict, or an occasional drug user.   Now stop and think about all the people addicted to the internet, the TV, driving their cars, etc.  All of these things can cause trouble for someone addicted, but should their lack of balance and moderation dictate what the fuck I can do?  My answer is an emphatic NO!!   However, I understand people who do not want to take personal responsibility, and want to place the blame other than where I believe it lies directly.  That is okay, and just not my perception.  I value hearing others views, as it helps me to broaden my own, however I feel pretty adamant about ending prohibition, as I hold freedom more dear than most anything else.. EDIT:  I am sorry for your unfortunate experience with drug dealers you have known, but mine used to go always for the best quality, and price.  They would pass them on to me for a price more reasonable than street prices.  Many of them were also regular users, so they didn't get garbage, they tested it themselves, and would give you an honest, experienced evaluation.  There are a shit load of drug dealers who have standards, and are honest.  Hell, I know a whole bunch of drug dealers, who sell all kinds of drugs, and many of them are people I consider my very best friends.   I choose not to spend a lot of time around addictive drugs, but saying that every drug dealer who sells something that is addictive is horrible (and deserves jail time), is no better than being a racist or sexist, etc.  People are people, and in any category, you will find good and bad, the decision lies with you, in who you choose to associate yourself with.  Making poor choices gives no one the right to blame others involved, unless force comes in to play, and I don't know many drug dealers that force people to buy their shit, since it's usually pretty easy to sell on it's own. Also, most of the drug dealers I knew wouldn't dare offer drugs to children and would make sure they didn't deal in front of them.  They were people, just like any other, with bills to pay, a habit, often times, and desires, just like the rest of us.  Some are unscrupulous money hungry predators, but I see them no different than corporations after the almighty dollar.  Legalization would allow for better regulation..

You seem to be missing the point, I am not speaking about RECRATIONAL" Drug Users"  I am speaking about people who choose to Feed thier Greed, 4 money, by selling a product which causes Absolute Destruction, Would u feel comfortable in giving a person who has not ever tried Heroin, the Drug itself? Ive obviousley touched a nerve, all I was saying in the first place, is In my Opinion that Dealing in Drugs is the lowest of the low, u would have to be a very spineless person to know that u the Drug Dealer, knowingly is selling something 4 thier own financial gain, that can potentally kill on the spot, or knowing that that person, whether they can "Control Drugs or not, is going down the road to destruction. And ur Drug dealers must come in a very small minority, just because he gives u some 4 nout that make them a nice person, the same person who is providing u with a Drug that will kill u, come on!!!!!!!. Are we talking about Crack and Heroin here, cos thats wot im talkin about!!!   Wow a drug dealer with Morals, thats hilairious!!!  U can not justify it, its wrong, thats y they have Laws against it, in my opinion, they should give harsher penalties, then they would think twice about doing it, in ur previous message, u state that a Drug addict is responsible 4 his/her own actions and should be law abiding, though shall not thieve or steal or kill, or pay the price, and drug dealing comes under that too it ILLEAGAL, for a reason!!! because u r potentially killing someone, if the drug dealer wasnt there, then thats up to the Drug addict to find away, maybe there will be less addicts on the street, it is a choice, illeagal drugs are very tabu, and thats y people choose to do them cos they feel they r rebelling, not all drug users, some actually  need them because of the depression, there are plenty of drugs that r legal that can deal with Depression.. Alot of Addicts dont realise what they r getting themselves into at first, they think they can handle it, put it down to recreational use!! They Grade Drugs too, cos of the effect it has Grass is in a lower grade to Crack and Heroin, and so it should be, it doesnt cause destructive behaviour, thats y its in a diff class, Alcohol is legal, where as Alcohol, can cause some to behave destructivley, it depends on the person, but Crack/Heroin No No, its complete destruction, its all good at first, then most if not all become addicted, and desperate, and end up dying or in jail, and bak to square one. And by saying that someone who has a strong opinion, on a subject that is extremely sensitive to the majority of people who are affected by this DEADLY Behaviour, might aswel be a racist or sexist, is Ignorant, a Drug dealer, who by the way, most of them are not distorted by Drug Addiction themselves, know damm well wot they are doing, unlike the Drug user, who are seriousley addicted, they are  basically saying that its ok to sell these evil substances that cause death and more crime.. Il say it again, exactly wot I meant in the first place People who sell Hard Drugs in my opinion have no Morals, just because they give out Freebies now and then doesnt make them nice people, where are the morals, tell me??  If u want to reply to me again, dont change the subject, answer this question, where are the morals in Dealing in Crack and Heroin, maybe u think its morally ok do you? Im not talking about freedom of choice, or responsibility!! And I am certainly not saying that its the Drug dealers fault for my Drug use, read my introduction!!! And as u have stated u r sorry 4 my choice of Drug dealers in that they have not provided me with the finest of quality of the Drug, Oh yes they did, it was so pukka, I came back 4 more and more, and they was handing it to me on a plate, when I was not phoning them anymore, cause I wanted to give it up, what they was doing was punting 4 my custom, as they do to others. My real friends are the ones who have helped me thru the hard times, not tried to shove drugs under my nose.. Dont get me wrong, I was just expressing an opinion, I would even go as far to say that most Drug dealers have a problem in itself, they have this burning desire to line their greedy pockets, to surround themselves with material things just to make themselves feel better, maybe they have insecurity probs, cos they arnt doing it 4 the good of the addict are they, maybe u should be afriend and try and get them out of this crazy lifestyle before it winds them up in jail, u wouldnt want to see that happen to a good Friend would u?, the same I wouldnt want one of my good friends get caught up in really addictive drugs, I dont go around protesting harsher penalties 4 Drugdealers, it was just an observation and its seemed to have really touched a nerve in u.  I put my energies into staying safe, and helping others!  Im sorry to hear abt ur post acute withdrawals Greatful Dad

Ibogaine can kill you, and anyone selling it is in fact a drug dealer..  Look at the host of complaints about treatment providers.  Lots of people feel they weren't treated properly, were ripped off, and some have died.  How is that any different than a drug dealer who sold you heroin and had the same effect?  A drug is a drug, and intent is what matters.  Knowledgeable use of drugs can be profound for the user, and so education is what is needed more than regulation, IMHO.. I definitely can justify drug use.  I went to a vendor online to purchase poppy pods, a plant that is fairly simple to grow and can provide me with total pain relief.  If I couldn't buy them, I'd probably grow them myself.  It is addictive, but do I hold the person selling pods responsible for my use?  Hell no!  I am the one making a choice to use a drug, and I choose where I purchase it.  Most heroin dealers I knew, even the grubby ones, wouldn't try and turn on people unfamiliar with it.  Not to say it doesn't happen, but you obviously have dealt with some ruthless fucks, that probably would do the same thing with anything they are involved with.  It's called being selfish and greedy, which too, are addictions.   I don't care if it's some coca leaves in tea or a crack rock, it's the same drug.  Many people use coca tea the same as caffeine, should we hold coca-cola responsible for all the caffeine addicts of the world?  How about the coffee makers and growers?  Perhaps we should lock up all the no doze dealers of the world, since they are obviously selling an addictive drug that could kill or cause problems.   I am simply stating, just because you are unable to use a drug successfully, without causing you pain, doesn't mean that joe blow on the corner can't and should be punished for yours or my shortcomings.  You can blame anyone one you choose, but in the end, it came down to your choice of what to buy, who to buy it from, and how and why you use it.  That blame lies with you, and your choice.  The consequences of your lack of self control should not dictate what anyone else does.   We will never be able to eradicate drug use, because people obviously want them.  Where there is a will, there is a way, as there should be.  Seeking to control others choices because of your own short comings is prejudiced, and blaming the actions of some drug dealers for your lack of self control does no good for anyone.  If we legalized drugs we could use taxes and profits to fund addiction treatments and proper drug education.   If you think opiates are so evil, tell that to the cancer patient just hanging on or the guy with a broken back who needs these things to live a quality life free of debilitating pain. Regulation would be easier to implement, if things were legal.  Most kids can get heroin or cocaine way easier than alcohol, so why not regulate drugs the same way they do with alcohol and cigarettes?   When does it become the responsibility of the user?  I could drink 10 gallons of water and die, but you aren't gonna hold the bottler accountable for my misuse of their product, are you?  I mean I just have problem with the logic.  We've been making harsher penalties, and throwing more and more people in jail every day, and our jail populations continue to rise.  Families are ripped apart, killers and rapists get less time, all because of the money that cops can attain with the current drug policy.  The whole policy needs to be changed, and if you look at other models, in countries that allow possession of drugs for personal use, they have lower incarceration rates, and less overall drug use.  Why do you suppose that is?   We can debate for days on this, but all of it falls right back to the single point, two simple words, PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.   If someone offers my children drugs, do I think they should be in jail?  Nope, I don't, as I have taught my children the truth about drugs.  I don't want anyone offering my kids drugs, but I also don't believe they should go to jail.  It is my responsibility as a parent to teach my kids the truth and to help them cope with daily problems in a healthy way.  Just because there are millions of parents who don't, doesn't mean that I should be restricted.  People of today forget to take responsibility for their choices, they get out of control, then seek to blame the thing that they got out of control with.   I can spend way too much time on the internet, neglect my family and other personal responsibilities, so maybe we should limit the amount of internet everyone is allowed to use, or only allow it for those who have acquired special licenses?  Does that sound fair or practical?   Addiction is a mental problem, and regardless if your drug of choice is women (sex), or heroin, an unhealthy balance in life is the problem, not sex or heroin.  That is what I truly believe.  Outlawing heroin and cocaine, and busting drug dealers with harsher penalties never stopped me from using, so why do you think it would stop anyone else?   I just feel your anger is misdirected.  I feel if I fuck up my life, it's my fault, as no one held me down and made me take anything.  As for grading drugs, I know people who have been so addicted to weed (mentally pretty much) that they can't afford to pay their bills and have had problems.  I don't think that is any different than a heroin addict or a cocaine addict or a meth addict, or a TV addict, or a food addict, etc.   It's not the object that causes the addiction, but rather the motivations/genes/problems of the person using the tool.  If you use heroin to cope, and get out of control, then that is YOUR fault.  Plenty of people use opiates daily, and benzos, and whatever, and they function just fine. I don't imagine I can convince you, but maybe after you take iboga, free your mind and body of addiction, you'll learn that you had the power to do so all along, and you'll stop blaming drug dealers for your addiction.   That's like me asking for a knife, then getting pissed at you for selling me one, cause I cut off my finger.  Whether it was an accident or not, it's not the knife sellers fault if I hurt myself.  Now one knife seller might give instructions on how to use it properly, install safety precautions, give me detailed instructions on how to use it, etc.  He would probably be the one I chose to buy my knife off of.  However you can go into millions of markets in the world, and buy a knife with no instructions, then go home and chop off your finger.  Now who's fault is that?  Is it yours for not making a proper educated choice?  Is it the knife company who made it?  Is it the market who sold it to you?   Please, I know a lot of the questions I've asked might seem rhetorical, but go ahead and answer them anyways, I would love to see your answers, as I think you might open your mind to some of my logic.. EDIT: Also, I want you to know, you have not touched a nerve, or angered me in any way.  I truly enjoy the debate, and hope that you don't take any offense at my opinions.  They are my opinions and I am enjoying our debate, so please, this is all said with love and care in mind!   Peace sister!

Sorry I didn't answer your question directly, but I think my last answer speaks for itself. The question was "People who sell Hard Drugs in my opinion have no Morals, just because they give out Freebies now and then doesnt make them nice people, where are the morals, tell me??  If u want to reply to me again, dont change the subject, answer this question, where are the morals in Dealing in Crack and Heroin, maybe u think its morally ok do you?" I specifically knew plenty of people who dealt, to support themselves and their habits.  Some would short you, rip you off, give you cut crap, etc.  Some however, would call me when they got a deal, would tell me how good it was, would give me a better deal than what was on the street.  They wouldn't deal in front of my kids, wouldn't allow me to go drive off after getting high, cause they didn't want my kids in jeopardy.  They also wouldn't turn on new people, and would often tell people interested how bad they were addicted and would turn them away.  These people had definite morals, and cared, but they often were addicts too.  You have given a stereotypical view of drug dealers, but remember they are people, and again, there is good and bad in all people.  Who you choose to deal with is YOUR choice.. I think selling drugs is morally okay.  I think that anyone who produces a product, regardless of it's safety for the masses, should be paid for their efforts and risks.  I don't care if it's cannabis or methamphetamine.  Some cannabis growers care so much, they grow only organic, use no inorganic pesticides, and harvest, trim, and cure it so the end product is of utmost quality.  I know meth cooks who will not dare put out anything but clear shards of meth.  They care definitely for the quality of their products.  I also know cannabis growers who grow huge yields of hydroponic pot, who don't trim well, don't flush properly, and don't cure properly, just so they can sell it and make money.  I know of meth cooks who will sell peanut butter meth (dirty shit with nasty byproducts in it).  It's not the drug they are dealing, but the person's intent that makes the difference..

Come on, Im talking about selling Drugs that lead to destruction, Tobacco, is a Drug, and that isnt destuctive, yes it can shorten ones lifespan, and cause illnesses, so does alcohol, but they are not destuctive are they, and that is my point, and its Legal, Y? cos they are not destructive!! My point is that I think u have to be one sick Dude, to take pride in selling something, that is Evil, it causes so much devastation.  Thats y it is Illeagal, and so it should be!!! You think its ok to make a living out of someone elses misery, and thats ur opinion!!!As for Ibogaine, its doesn't cause misery, so it seems!!!. The Deaths are caused by people using Drugs after, or due to ill health in the first place, and its stated enough that u should have nessesary check ups before ingesting Ibogaine. We all know the risks involved in Crack and Heroin, and in my case, I really was stupid enough in thinking, I had control over it!!!   DENIAL, is very ignorant!!!!! Once again, Im not speaking about softer Drugs that don't pose many risks, like Caffine!!! or Weed, whether legal, or not!! U r missing my point!!!! So Greatful Dad, I take it u have Children, I understand fully where u r coming from, u think it is morally right to sell crack/heroin to people, knowing the devastation its going to cause.. Charming!

Y would someone who is a member of these Forums, whos signed in, want to remain Anonymous Mmmm!!!?

Oh I might add, I am not angry, I am in fact in a good place, I no longer have the desire to get off on Hard Drugs, I may be still addicted to an Opiate, But I dont use The Drug which was the Drug of my choice, and I could not kick that 4 a long time, I grew up, I done lots of homework on myself, and in fact, I am so so happy that Ive got past that, and faced my Demons, I am no longer in Denial I may be sad abt the fact that Im still addicted to opiates, but I certainly dont waste my energy on being angry, at people, who I wouldn't piss on if they was on Fire  PPL who sell Crack/Heroin Come on lighten up, and get off ur Soap box Dont keep jumping off the subject, cause u want to argue 4 arguments sake, all I done was expressed my Opinion, On Hard Drug dealers, the Drugs that cause Devastation, not Tea or Coffee, Or Ibogaine, or Tobacco etc.  Wow, im glad its not me with the problem, just a minor Opinion, that someone who's in DENIAL, who wants to rip me to shreads  BRO!!!!!!!!!

Also, I am not in denial, but I think it might be you denying that your drug problem is your fault.  Placing blame on people you asked for drugs.  That is denial, and lack of personal responsibility.  We have to deal with regulations of this medicine, just like heroin, cocaine, or methamphetamine.  You do know there are a whole slew of addictive opiates used as medicine, and they work great?  Methamphetamine is a prescription drug as well.  Ibogaine is schedule I (possibly to be schedule II in light of some info from Dana Beal), which falls in the same category as cannabis, heroin, and cocaine.  Someone obviously feels ibogaine is dangerous and has no medical value, the same way you feel about heroin or cocaine.  Now I have to put up with that bullshit ruling because some idiot couldn't take personal responsibility for their actions..

Hey Dude!!! Calm Down, Lighten up, u keep bringing other Drugs into it!!! U shud start ur own thread up, u feel that strongly abt it, my opinion will never Change, and remember IM NOT SPEAKING ABOUT OTHER DRUGS, its the ones that cause Imediate destruction, u and I both know what they are, and so does the rest of the population CRACK COCAINE AND HEROIN, ud have to be one shallow person to earn a living off of them Drugs alone...  Y does a person sell these Drugs, because of the profit that can be made from this Highly addictive Drug that clearly takes over, unlike no other drug, thats legal or not!!!    U can dress this up how u want, or coming away from the point I originally made. Ive come across someone who thinks its morally ok to sell Crack/Heroin... Wud u allow ur Kids to sell it?

Alcohol and tobacco are not destructive?  People destroy their lives with addiction to alcohol every day.  People lose control on alcohol, just as they do with heroin.  You do know heroin and cocaine withdrawal can't kill you, unless other medical problems are there?  Alcohol and benzo withdrawal can and will kill you.   You think because some retards in our government say it's okay, it is?  I suppose people who prefer prohibition are too fearful of taking responsibility for their own choices.  You say that the drug dealer knows they are going to turn people into addicts and ruin their lives, but the drug user doesn't know.  Well who's responsibility is it to teach the drug user?  Who taught the dealer?   I think you are portraying drug users as victims, rather than giving them the same criteria you are holding the drug dealers accountable for.  If you don't know what the drug will do to you, and it's possible outcomes, then you choose to do it anyways, or choose to think you can control it, WELL WHO'S FAULT IS THAT??  I am honestly pissed that the government can so easily brainwash people into thinking that drugs are the cause of their problems, when in fact it's the choices you make with that drug that cause whatever consequences that you have to deal with. So is it okay to deal cannabis, since you don't think it causes destruction?  I know people have made their lives completely unmanageable with weed.  Do you think it's okay to sell alcohol, when people might take a drink and drive into a bus load of children?

I would prefer my children don't get involved with addictive drugs, but I believe they should have the right to use whatever they choose.  I will leave your thread, it's obvious that we will never agree.   I don't understand how you can make a rule for two specific drugs that you feel are horrible, because of your experience, while the same can be said for nearly any drug, depending on the person using it.  The reason we can't use ibogaine today, is because people like you took it upon themselves to decide what was okay for me and my family, which pisses me off to high heaven.   Who the heck are you or anyone else to decide what my family can or can't ingest?  It's made me extremely angry that anyone thinks they know better than I do about something, when they seek to limit my experience, which is exactly what you are trying to do with prohibition of certain drugs.   Gee, mister government man says it's bad for me, and I shouldn't do it, so I guess I can't.  Well screw that, and shame to anyone who seeks to control my use of any drug I choose!  It's my body, my choice to make about what I put in it, and my consequences to deal with should I make a poor choice or lose control. Anyone who refuses to take that responsibility is a child and should be treated as one.  I, however, am a grown, intelligent adult capable of making my own decisions. Anyone who tries to control my decisions is no friend of mine.  Prohibition didn't work for alcohol, and doesn't work for drugs.  Our prisons get fuller, killers and rapists, and violent offenders go free, while people who use drugs get to sit and rot.   Please do show me where harsher penalties have prevented anyone from doing anything!  America has been getting extremely hard on crack, heroin, and meth dealers, has it had any effect in availability?  You want quality control?  You want regulation?  You can't control organized crime.  When one is removed two more pop up in his place.  People will never stop dealing drugs with the current drug policy in place, because a black market drives prices up and drives safety precautions and regulation down.  Who the hell wouldn't want to make loads of easy money?   If it were treated the same as alcohol, we'd still have addicts, but they would be the same as an alcoholic, or a cigarette addict.  The shady dealings of unscrupulous dealers could be effectively eliminated, if you could walk into the pharmacy and ask the pharmacist for your drug of choice.  Sure some people wouldn't be able to handle it, but there would be quality control, better information, more education, and taxes could help pay for addiction treatment.  ibogaine could be purchased from your pharmacist or doctor, and you could receive the treatment you deserve.   Some relevant quotes: “Prohibition goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation and makes crimes out of things that are not crimes.”  Abe Lincoln. “For every prohibition you create you also create an underground.”  Jello Biafra

im not blaming anybody for my Drug use at all, if u read my thread, I take full responsibility for my own actions, and said the Goverment have alot to answer 4, I was merely expressing an opinion, and Im getting sick of typing this now, wow, il keep my opinions to myself in future, but where i come from we dont support the sale of HardDrugs, and I certainly dont blame them 4 others druguse, I just think its an awful way to earn money, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night, knowing that Im adding to the problem, thats already spiralling out of control!!!

And all I can say again is it is no the substances it is the "Use" we made choices' un-educated ones no doubt' and also we became wanton within our desires to keep taking "Shit" substances' shouting and expressing this should be like this and that should be like that is a pointless waste of time' Focus upon yourself and attempt to dig yourself out of the hole you made for yourself' Every single day we used we chose to use' we could have stopped any time' but our self created FEAR prevented us from embracing the light' No one ows anyone anything' we are the creators of our lives' Quit bitching and start living! Bliss! saltywillow40