Hydroponics?

Great questions Tia~ Since I have no experience growing anything hydroponically I may not be qualified to answer, however, I may add here that I have imbibed many a gnarly hydroponic plant in my time..hehe... In all sincerity though, since the root-bark of Tabernanthe iboga is where the magic resides, perhaps this method of Aeroponics would be better suited to the potential cultivator? It seems one would have the same amount of control over growth parameters and such, and perhaps for the experienced grower, would not be a quantum leap in method? Anyway here's a generic link : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeroponics Maybe something here? Good luck and let us know if this seems viable?

First, let me say that I have a somewhat green thumb and that some of my best friends are plants (hearing that, one of my 'animal' friends said "No, dude, some of you best friends are vegetables.")  Be that as it may, this topic has definite interest for me. I have seen numerous photos of hydroponic setups and the roots that result.  The roots seem pathetic and unnatural.  Having an infinite supply of water and nutrients, why should they grow healthy and vigorous?  The roots in the wiki entry (Cal's link) on areoponics, however, look fantastic. Plants living in the dirt must protect their root system from being eaten by pests, bacterium, fungi, etc.  Hence the production of alkaloids and root bark.  Similar to human skin, root bark is composed of dead cells that provide physical protection.  Alkaloids present in root bark were synthesized in the living plant tissue before it died. See where I'm going with this? In an areoponics setup, it may be possible to harvest the small roots and root hairs that are so often lost when a plant is uprooted from its soil.  It is likely that those small roots and root hairs have a rather large concentration of alkaloids in them.  Plus, they would probably be easier to eat. I'm imagining a salad of Iboga rootlets with creamy bleu cheese dressing

Areoponics is new to me! I didn't even realize that was even possible...amazing!  Interesting information there Eon...very cool man!  I would only consider myself a beginner in cultivation of plants, so my knowledge is very limited.  I'm currently focusing in the area of mycology...learning alot!

Way K00L fallout.  Mycology is a mushrooming field, or so I hear... Things taste so much sweeter if you have nurtured and cared for them yourself, I have found. If someone who takes care of plants has a green thumb, what color thumb does a mycologist have? Yer Pal, guenevere_walks

Eon, that's food for thought. I'm nurturing some seeds right now (which I've been told will take up to six weeks to sprout) and am as yet undecided on how to raise them when the time comes. I am a friend of plants as well, but only have experience with good ol' soil. Learning, learning. T

Hey Tia, Would they happen to be voacanga africana?......I'm currently trying with those. Take Care,

Having given the matter careful consideration, fallout, I think I have the answer to my question.  Mycologists have 'purple thumbs'.  Right?  Hope yours is deep purple --  nod nod, wink wink. The Israelies are big into aeroponics, having lots of sun and little water.  A friend was shopping-around a patent for a machine, the "Microsonic Nebulizer" that turned water and nutrients into tiny bubbles that float (Lawrence Welk eat your heart out, baby). Googled for 'Microsonic Nebulizer Bubbles Aeroponics' and found this gem:      "Bubbleponics™ is the art of delivering highly oxygenated nutrient solution DIRECTLY to the inner root zone." Bubbleponics???  Am I living in a cartoon world, or what?  Is that Don Ho floating by? Apple trees are grafted for better fruit;  cacti are grafted to other cacti with better roots;  grape vines are grafted together for both reasons  --  fruits and roots.  How about grafting Iboga root sets with vigorous plants (scions) that could grow in Canada, South America, some desert somewhere or even your nifty new $700 bubbleponics setup?  Would kudzu be good?  Switch Grass?  How about tomatoes? I'm imagining  a huge salad of tiny, tasty Iboga rootlets with a big slice of tomato grown from the same bush  --  and lotsa creamy blue cheese dressing.   Yum!!!

Very amazing stuff Eon!  I didn't realize the possibilities!  Very interesting ideas and possibilities....thanks for the info again.  Yes, indeed it is purple, although I am currently a beginner only using PF Tek currently.  Take Care

Eon, you crack me up! Deep purple thumbs! So, I'm going to count on you for the reports on grafting and how vigorously the roots grow. Keep us posted! Don't let this good idea evaporate. You have the time and inclination? I think in the future, the supply of this precious root will have to be very carefully addressed. The number of plants alive and growing in the world today is finite. I have thought a lot on the sustainability issues surrounding the use. Friend Ed, the seeds I have are Iboga, they're about raisin size and wrinkly, the color of cinnamon. Of course, I have them in MX! I'm keeping them warm and moist, per a friend's recommendation, with warm being the important point. My dear husband MacGyvered a timer light that comes on to see them through the night. I'm pretty sure one has germinated! It's hard not to poke and peek, lol. As far as Iboga rootlets being tasty, GAH! Bitter, bitter, BIG bitter taste. We're not talking salad green bitter, but mega mouth takeover bitter. Ain't no Roquefort gonna disguise that! I'll take mine neat, thanks, and enjoy knowing the tatse fades, lol. Love to all y'all. Tia

Very nice Bev! I realize Iboga seeds can be very difficult just to germinate, never-mind about getting a viable plant....that may come later.  Wish you well in that endeavor, knowing how expensive those seeds can be or how difficult they can be to come by.  I've only attempted Voacanga Africana, just for the sake of seeing it possibly germinate....still waiting   I send positive vibes to your Iboga plant Bev....take care!

Found out that I hadn't considered even half the possibilities.  Talked w/ trustworthy dude tonight that grew big-ass potatoes (BIG restaurant size baking 'tatoes) in 36 weeks using aeroponics.  He also grew some other vegetables (ahem) w/ aeroponics and the roots were as big as the green vegetation... Aeroponics, for 5 -6 plants, can probably be done for under $100, he says. I'm guessing someone among you might be interested in detailed plans ? ? ? DISCLAIMER:  Any and all such information is given with the express and implicit understanding  that applicable Local, State, Federal and International Laws regarding such endeavors shall be repeatedly broken. (HAHA  -- Just Kiddin'  --  Y'all be good citizens, hear?!?!?

With most plants that contain interesting alkaloids in their "old growth" foliage, the more you stress them the more potent they become.  Things like the friction of the dirt slowing the roots growth down to the root bark being able to form properly in hydro/aeroponic systems can also play a roll in the end result.  Big doesn't always mean better in this arena... you end up with more vegatative mass and a lower ratio of alkaloid per given weight. Not saying that there is no hope in growing in this manor, just adding in some factors you might wanna research on before trying to grow this way.

Interesting points Psychenaut...You are very correct about plant stressing and alkaloid potential. I am just learning some basics about this stuff, and it seems you have a good head for this type of thing. Maybe there is no 'quick fix' in growing this magic, maybe we can put our heads together and come up with something? Thanks for sharing!

I do agree Psychenaut....interesting, didn't realize that was a factor!

1st let me correct myself.  They got 40lbs of 'tatoes in 6 WEEKS.  Not 36.  Guess I just couldn't believe it.  They started harvesting in three weeks and had 40 lbs by 6 weeks  --  when they stopped.  (Rumors of a youkon gold crackdown, I presume.) (U know me, always kiddin'.  ) He did say that the roots (and 'tatoes) were all WHITE.  I.e no root bark, as is normally seen w/ normal (oh, how I LOVE that word) plants. Seems that the amount of roots can be increased by misting (bubbling?) the roots on an intermittant basis. Do those roots have the desired nutrients?  I doan fookin know.  An dat b da truth.  I am interested, howsomever, in finding out... Who wants to take the plunge?  That water looks warm to me (HEHE).............    Yer Pal,  McKnighty

Some type of drip irrigation set up where the roots are growing into lava balls etc.. may make for an intersting project.  The constant flow of water around the roots but still not being totally submerged in the liquid may create a favorable environment... hmmmm fun stuff!

Sounds very interesting guys and girls.....I'm just now only leaning better soil growing techniques for my Echinopsis pachanoi, Echinopsis peruviana and Voacanga africana specimens.....Hydroponics seem like a dream for now  Just got my seedling heating mat!

I am thinking some deep DWC buckets with airs tones and organic nutes for the plant.  Gimme the details of what the ideal conditions are, and maybe I'll construct a DWC bucket and give her a shot under an extra light in my veg room.  I need humidity levels, light cycles, and all that jazz, temps, etc.   Maybe I'll start a side project for iboga in the next few months.  If anyone has extra seeds, I may be interested but let me get things built and running first.  Worst comes to worse, I could always start it out in DWC and then switch to a nice huge bucket of organic soil, with a huge root mass, and let them go crazy.  It has me thinking, anyways!

DWC?  Driving While Comatose?  Please enlighten!  ~et

Deep Water Culture.  It basically consists of a bucket/lid with a hole made for a basket filled with hydroton or lava rock.  An air stone is placed in the bottom with a pump running outside.  The bucket is slightly modified to make things work easy, but a quick search on google could find you some ideas.  The bucket is filled with nutrient solution and the air pump bubbles oxygen through the air stone into the solution.  The plant sits in the basket and the roots grow into the hydroton and then further into the bucket as it grows.  The highly aerated water allows maximum oxygen to the roots, while sitting in the pure water/nutrient mix.  It is checked for pH, ppm's, EC, and kept topped off with plain pH adjusted water or nutrients as needed.  The reservoir can be cleaned out and new nutrients added about every two weeks.  Some do it less, and some more often.  But that is the basic idea.

After seeing Chris Jenks' video on Utube (thanks, Dad!) I posted the following on the vox list.  Seems that root bark cells can be cultured to produce ibogaine.  I guess that the quantity of living root bark cells would determine the amount of ibogaine present in the plant.  If dead root bark cells do not accumulate from aeroponics, as they do in the native environment, the amount of ibogaine could be small. If any good info comes from my vox post, I will add it to this topic.   ~eon To the Esteemed Good Doctor Jenks: I just finished watching the video of your conference presentation.  A BIG thanks for your humanitarian efforts! Near the end, you mentioned culturing T. iboga root bark cells.  Has anything been published on the subject? Allow me to relate the reason for my interest.  A while back, my son built an aeroponics growing chamber made from widely available and low cost materials.  The chamber was a 6" PVC pipe with nebulizers (spray nozzles) inside.  A nutrient solution was periodically sprayed on the roots.  The plants were raised under grow lights.  Here's some more from wiki:     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeroponics  (Please note the profusion of healthy rootlets in the photos.) What makes this technique relevant to iboga is that the roots grew profusely  --  especially the fine rootlets.  Since the ratio of root bark cells to inner root cells gets larger as the roots get smaller (decrease in volume), there should be a very high percentage of ibogaine in the rootlets.  IF  --  and that's a BIG IF  --  ibogaine is always produced by root bark cells.  That is, is it necessary for the root bark cells to come in contact with dirt or some other stimulus to begin producing ibogaine? If cultured root bark cells produce ibogaine, I would expect that the roots of aeroponically grown T. iboga would as well. The rootlets could be harvested over and over again from a single plant without causing it serious harm.  And one could probably have a number of plants growing in the basement or attic along side other (ahem) medicinal plants. By way of reference, my son was able to harvest 40 lbs of potatoes in 6 weeks! If T. iboga could be raised under lights, aeroponically...

I'm guessing that this is the article that Chris was referring to at the conference.  Does anyone have a copy that could be shared  --  without violating any copyright agreements, of course? Abstract Tissue lines, selected from explants of Tabernanthe iboga H. Bn. and cultured in shake flasks, produced and released from three to five indole alkaloids into the culture medium. the iboga alkaloids in order of their relative abundance were ibogaine, dihydroxyibogamine, ibogamine, voacangine, and ibogaline. All five compounds have the same basic ring structure as ibogaine, a putative anti-addictive drug. Three of these could consistently be detected in culture medium that was removed and replaced at two-week intervals over periods of at least five months. the nutrient-hormone combination used consisted of Gamborg's B5 medium with 2% w/v sucrose, 2mg/l 2,4-dichlorophenoxy-acetic acid (2,4-D) and 0.1 mg/16-benzyladenine (BA). These results suggest that plant tissue culture procedures can be developed as an economically feasible and environmentally responsible source of ibogaine and other potential anti-addictive drugs. Perhaps the "nutrient-hormone combination" mentioned in the abstract could be included in the aeroponic medium to accelerate RB growth and alkaloid production?  Dump a bunch of hormones and precursors into those tender, absorbent root hairs?  Force them rootlets to grow uncontrollably.  Then we'll come out with the organic version, without the hormones and vegan precursors, at 10x the price!  We'll be rich, famous and powerful!  (And  we shall become the new Post-Neo-Republicans with a host of lobbyists in our vest pockets.)  Isn't capitalism fun ? ! ? ! That the RB cells were "cultured in shake flasks" is a good indicator, in my battered & beaten brain, that the root bark cells WILL produce several alkaloids, some of which are still legal in the Unenlightened Stalag of Amerikka. Ya-freakin-Hoo!     ~et PS  --  Hey kidz, can YOU find the mini-rants hidden in this message?   !e

Here's a copy of the root bark cell culture paper that Chris Jenks spoke about, courtesy of the kind doctor himself.   ~et http://puzzlepiece.org/ibogaine/literature/basile1999.pdf PS  --  Shoot, looks like a bad link, file or something.  Googled "basile1999.pdf" but found nothing.  Sorry folks!  ~et PPS  --  Members need to login to see and download the file from the link below.  Please see GDad's post below if you have problems opening it.    ~e