Iboga TA from Ibogaworld Dosing Question

No way of telling % really unless you can send it to the lab, their stuff seems consistent from what I have heard so you should probably just ask them (Michelle).  As far as dosing, they have to be careful and always dose people about 1.3-1.9 gr short so I can only guess you weigh between 180-210.  Therefore if that is the case 4.5-5.5 are kind of your range in my opinion.  If you are looking to crack open the head then more, if not then less.  I opt for more and I know most hear do as well, better safe than sorry.  Just make sure your health is in check, heart and such.

agreed . KP hits it on the head again ( & breaking it open in the process) . i am truely a fan .

Only because HP taught me.  Vice versa kindred!

It's true that without lab testing you cannot know for sure.. Michelle from IW has told me that their TA is actually PTA, a purified total alkaloid extract, that's been testing in the 70-80% range of activity. Now, I know this is a touchy subject for some.  There are those out there who think that TA is TA, and that some people are getting ripped off thinking they're buying a stronger form of it.  So I offer these reminders: First:  There is a difference between TA and PTA.  Taking a homemade TA even, and purifying it further is not that hard. Second:  You also need to remember that two TA's made the exact same way by the exact same person can still be different if they come from different plants.  The content of the plant also has an affect. Third:  I have personal experience with IbogaWorld's TA and their HCL, and well as several different homemade extracts from friends.. I loved the HCL, and could easily tell that it was simply ibogaine hcl.  IW's TA is, in my opinion, incredibly strong.. Out of all the homemade extracts that I have had, only one has ever been as strong as IW's.  It came to me by the way of a dear friend, and it was amazing, but all the other homemade's I've tried have been maybe half as strong as IW's TA, or less. Lastly:  Remember that IW tends to recommend large doses.  The doses they recommend you take of their TA/HCL, if you do the math, are usually well over 22mg/kg.  So keep that in mind.  I usually tell people they don't need near as much as what Michelle recommends, and I always recommend you do your best to gauge the strength of what you have, and then do the math to calculate a mg/kg dosage.

My basic understanding about TA from Iboga World is as follows.  Normal Total Alkaloids (TA) contains 30-40% ibogaine, 10-20% other iboga alkaloids and 50ish% inert stuff, whereas Precipitated/Purified Total Alkaloid (PTA) is 60-80% ibogaine with a bit of other Iboga alkaloids (ibogaline, ibogamine and Tabernanthine).    To make PTA, you take normal TA and add in acetone and hydrochloric acid (HCL).  This removes the 50% inert stuff which is called Residual Alkaloids (RA).  RA is a black gunk that is useless and is thrown away.  With the 50% RA gone, you are now left with the remaining 50% Iboga alkaloids; this is called PTA HCL.  Because half of the TA has been removed, the remaining alkaloids have all doubled in percentage, hence 60-80% Ibogaine (up from 30-40% in TA). As an aside, to get Ibogaine HCL, you then boil the PTA HCL in 95% ethanol for a few hours and it gets rid of the other alkaloids, leaving you with pure Ibogaine, or Ibogaine HCL to give it it's correct name.  So TA and PTA are very different compounds.  If I understand correctly form this discussion thread, what Iboga World sells is not really TA, but PTA HCL, and that explains why it is quoted as 70% Ibogaine.  That would explain why their TA is so much stronger and consistently high in Ibogaine....it's actually PTA HCL, not TA!

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Thank you for the responses. I should add here, my initial math was wrong.  I was calculating mg/lb, and not mg/kg.  I am 180 pounds, or 81 kilo. And so, if the IW TA extracts are really at 70%, 3.8 grams would equate to 2660mg of active ingredient.  This is 32mg/kg at the recommended 3.8 grams dose.   And if it's not quite 70%, and it's say 50% that still 23mg/kg.  Far above the threshold in either case for a flood dose. With this new equation it seems the recommended dose given to me by Michelle is way outside the threshold range.    It seems as though I may only need 1/2 to 2/3 what she recommended to me.  Would you agree with this?

No. I have had Iboga World TA for my 1 flood dose.  Since then I have had only original TA batches and they are quite compatible.  I even had left over Iboga World TA and I compared them mg to mg with the original made TA and if anything the original was stronger.  I was very dissapointed that I did not go as far as I could have with my Iboga World dose range.  I could have easily gone 2 grams more, and I weigh the exact same as you, and was recommended the exact same amount by the exact same person.  To those that know, wink wink it is speaking to the choir and there are things we can't really say (like Iboga is 99% of the time safe) but for those that are new to Iboga or unfamiliar or what not they always think it is scary and harmful if one goes for the gold.  No way to convince and I don't want to.  I can only speak for myself, I would have at least done 1 gram more if I could do it over again.  It's not like you can do this every day so that one opportunity should be taken as such, like a bull by the horns and full throttle.  By the way I am only speaking from experience, to all this % shit, I don't really know nor am I gonna give it one iota of attention. But suit yourself

^^ Well there you have it.. Based on what KP said, you can tell that Iboga can very greatly from batch to batch, as does the way it affects individual people.. I have nothing but respect for KP, and I can tell you that he definitely knows what he's talking about.  But my experience with IW's stuff has been the complete opposite of his.  The "TA" I have gotten from IW has always been incredibly, and almost always way stronger than the homemade TA's I've had.. But, another respected member of our forum has had a very different experience. So it seems there's not much of a way to give a definitive answer to your query.  Perhaps you should start lower than IW's recommended dose, and then you can always take more if it feels right?  Because as KP said, it is certainly possible to calculate a dose based on other people's recommendations, and end up wishing you would have taken more. But in almost every case it's much wiser to err on the side of caution - so I would definitely recommend starting lower, and leaving yourself the option of working up to more. (And of course, absolutely no disrespect KP - I'm glad you chimed in.  This has been a pretty hotly debated topic, and there are some varying opinions on it.  But I hold your opinions with the highest regard)

Thanks for the generous words Digi, I also very much value your opinion.  That being said I am doing a flood in under a week with homemade and I will be able to compare/contrast.  So that might be a safer bet for our newcomers that get Ibo World, compared to the more blossomed soldiers that make their own.

coldspring - you said "By the way I am only speaking from experience, to all this % shit, I don't really know nor am I gonna give it one iota of attention."  I am a newbie so I defer to the experienced members on this forum, but without using percentages, how else to figure out dosing for that first time flood?  It sounds as if you are saying just take the upper dose anyway because Ibogaine is safe and you'll regret not having had enough.  Should I be forgetting about the recommendations and go 1-2 grams higher?

Thanks for the input.  When people give opposing information I tend to err on the side of caution.  From my perspective, it is wiser to stick to the recommended dose and take it from there.  I'm thinking of having a couple of extra grams of TA as a backup just in case I get a few hours in and think that I really want more.  Otherwise, I will just use that couple of extra grams as maintenance dose for afterwards. Besides, if Iboga does everything I have read about, then I will be doing again in the future.  And the next time I will know far better how to dose for my personal circumstances.

Hmmm...my only inclination is to resend anything I have said on the subject as controversy is not a place I want to be.  But for me the 3.8 I took at the recommendation of Iboga World did not get me to the satisfaction where I wanted or achieve what I wanted to full effect.  Needless to say it accomplished a lot but when I have read some of the other journeys and the way my journey felt, I realize I could have gone further.  Just do what feels right and especially do what Iboga World says.  As I have nothing to gain by helping you get further I am not sure why it would behoove me to stick my neck out like I did.  It was just all too familiar given that I weigh the same and had the same TA. But in this life you can only help so many, and some of the backlash that could occur are not worth the risk on my part.  Honestly I don't really belong here anymore.  I am much more in frog land.  This has become too much of a controversial place for medicine peoples to propel into new waves of growth.

I would try IW's recommendation, but have more on hand so you can go higher if you feel it's necessary.  I haven't ever heard of an ibogaine overdose either, so keep that in mind.  For me, I would always go higher than what most people are recommended because, from my experience, I ALWAYS need more than average..

Even though I didn't start this thread, I've found it very useful.   For the uniniated, it is difficult to know how best to dose and it is great to have various points of view so that I can form my own opinions, even if those points of view are out on a limb.  Forums are all about sharing for the greater good.  And what is frog land?  Are you living in France KP?

Frog land means Kambo land.  I have a hard time here sometimes because people can be down right nasty.  In the world of Kambo you only find healers and people that want to be healed.  In the world of Iboga you find some very sick people.  I guess I could be hypocritical but it's comments like Crazy Life made that make me want to evacuate the premesis.  I've been in enough scuffles here for nuissance issues of trying to be as honest as I can, my shortcomings are always to blame but I can't help but to feel sometimes people are still very sick here.

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Seriously? What the f*ck are you on? Do you take yourself this seriously in the 3D world? Maybe its a communication issue, because im from England, and here we dont take ourselves quite as seriously as you americans. And fwiw, i wouldnt be scared of you pal.

Moderator - please ban my ass, im not getting threatened online by some internet faggort. I think i know now why 2 well known shamans told me that IBOGA is wasted on opiate addicts.

bad judgement again . you just dont stop . i am not an American . never have been.

there you go again .....

Let's all try and discuss things with each other in a civil manner, without calling names.  People will get one warning, and if they continue to blast each other, call names, insult, and flame, they will get the temporary ban.  We definitely can discuss everything we feel without it resulting in personal attacks.  If we disagree, there are tactful ways to express it without attacking the person with a differing view.  A good way to do this is to take a statement that we disagree with, state our opinion, then back it up with facts and references to support our view.  If we can't do that, then we should really just keep our mouths shut.  The only reason people use insults is because they can't effectively express their views in a positive manner.  steadygrove42, the fact that we don't hear of iboga overdoses makes me wonder why you would think a larger dose is so much more dangerous? IbogaWorld has been doing this a long time, and the doses they recommend tend to work.  I believe this is because the way iboga is used, one is usually trying to "break open" their heads, so they can have a transforming experience.  This is how one starts new, with a clean slate.  You can take a cup of dirty water, and slowly tip it and add more clean water, over and over, but if you want clean water, the best way to get it is to pour out all the dirty water, clean the cup, and refill it with your new clean water..  This is what an iboga flood does.  It pulls all our garbage to the surface, allows us to get rid of it, then helps repair damaged areas, and with new habits (clean water), we can begin a new life. The way the Bwiti use it is to give a full flood as an initiation, then they only use small amounts as needed to help remind them what they learned, whenever they need it.  Several people have expressed that the very first flood dose is the only time you get very intense visions of great importance to you.  After it, you may get visions, but often they are not near what they were in the first experience.  So, IMO, I would think it wise to do the largest dose first, so you can have a full flood and experience the true benefits, the most intense visions, and the greatest push onto the healing path.  After that, microdosing, or using small doses as needed to help you remember is the way I think it should be used.. As for dick-waving, I don't see a point..  People could assume I am dick waving because of the doses I use, but why would I like to have to take more to receive the benefits?  The wood is expensive and precious, and I would love it if it only took me what it takes some other people.  I know that probably some of the folks on this forum are very tough, and plenty macho, but even they often can't take the doses I need..  That doesn't make me think I am a hard ass..  I know some on this forum that get extremely powerful effects from 1/4 of what it takes me to even feel it..  The thing is, with iboga, it's not always size, experience, or sex that determines how much we can handle.  It's a result of diverse genetics, biochemistry, and more that determines what our own personal needs are with iboga.  IbogaWorld has years of experience in determining what it takes to give an effective dose of iboga, and since there are no known overdose deaths from iboga, they would rather see someone have success with their first experience rather than fall short and be disappointed or discouraged.  There are plenty of stories where providers wouldn't give the people enough iboga (sometimes due to them being shady and not wanting to spend their profits on more iboga), and the patient leaves treatment upset, without the best chance at recovery, and a big chunk of their money wasted on what could have been a full experience had they spent a small percentage more and got the proper dose they needed. This will not make a business that is recommending doses more money if they don't get the job done the first time..  Killing their customers will not help them either..  So I think they recommend the doses they see fit, and do so from experience.  They know their extract, and how it works, and who has lasting benefits.  I understand the reason for caution, and there definitely are cases where death has occurred (none of them are linked to using too much iboga), but I think that in the majority of cases, complications are minimal, and I do think the danger can definitely be overstated.