Possible to convert ibogaine into noribogaine?
Banco, I have no idea but this would be very interesting indeed. Hope we can shed some light onto this.
I just had this epiphany... To convert it maybe just maybe... Do like you would making TA extract. My version is 1/2 organic grain alcohol and 1/2 an 8% red wine vinegar (alcohol so it keeps for much longer in it's powder form)... BUT adding a whole heap of digestive enzymes and pancreatic enzymes??? I guess it's worth a try with some micro doses. Thanks for your report Banco that was highly entertaining. Honestly so much resonates I almost can't comment on it.
Woops forgot the crucial element. So since it is processed in the liver I am assuming that using a liver glandular supplement might be able to replace ones own liver in the processing into noribogaine. So in addition to the digestive enzymes to use a liver glandular supplement might be able to mimic the bodies system. This is the product I picked up on the expiration shelves a while back, being a non animal eater I wondered why I got it, I guess I know why now... http://www.nutricology.com/Liver-Beef-Natural-Glandular-125-Caps-p-16508.html But probably the powder would be better in this TA extraction tech... http://www.nutricology.com/Liver-Powder-Beef-Natural-Glandular-200-Grams-Powder-p-16706.html I will try with the caps to cut them open or what not. Give me a month or two. I think I will also get some Bioperine powder for future experiments with this to see if that absorbtion factor can also parallel the bodies digestion in the liver. Honestly to the crux of you question I doubt that it is possible for those with chemistry knowledge, I think it will come from avant garde cats like us. Pumas, Jaguars, Lions, Ocelots, Margays, Asian Leopards and all us cats of the interstellar forest.
Hi peeps thanks for the feedback. Interesting stuff KP, would be good to experiment, and good to know that liver powder is immediately frozen, being proteins enzymes tend to be pretty fragile outside of their optimum conditions. It appears that the enzyme Cytochrome P4502D6 (CYP2D6), or two or more variants of it, are responsible for the O-demethylation of ibogaine to 12-hydroxyibogamine (noribogaine) in human liver microsomes: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9698290 The question is though, is only this enzyme capable of catalyzing this reaction, or would there be a way of achieving the same means through chemicals? From the paper abstract in the link below: "Most importantly, NORIBO [noribogaine] appears less likely to produce the adverse effects associated with IBO [ibogaine] (i.e., tremors and stress-axis activation), suggesting that the metabolite may be a safer alternative for medication development." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11085335 So I think this would definitely an interesting area to look into, but it would take someone with more knowledge of chemistry than I to look at this and come up with some useful conclusions.
Hi there, thanks a bunch for all the great info and papers and taking the time to share this. So there is a chemical way of converting ibogaine into noribogaine. But one may miss out on some of the healing through iboga if one skips this step. Still though in terms of long term healing effects it seems that the noribogaine is the more important molecule. So it is the ibogaine as oppose to the noribogaine which is lipophilic and hangs around in body tissues being gradually converted? I was under the impression it was the noribogaine that hangs around in the body tissues but I could certainly be wrong. Interesting also in one of the studies, blood noribogaine levels of rats were actually higher than blood ibogaine levels following administration of ibogaine...it appears the vast majority of ibogaine goes to the liver when ingested, where its converted into noribogaine by enzymes there, and this conversion is a very important component of iboga's long term healing and afterglow. Definitely unique among shamanic plants in this respect I think.
Yeah what I came to the coclusion is, that the ibogaine is what hangs in the fatty tissue and is slowly released as lipids are broken down overtime and then is quite instantly converted to noribogaine. So you could think of it like THC, because it stores in the lipid cells of the body, and overtime as fatty tissue is broken down, it is converted into its metabolite. (Just like ibogaine converting to noribogaine) Which is how you can test positive for cannabis 30 days + since your last ingestion. They test for the metabolite.
A little info from Dr Chris Jenks on noribogaine that may be of interest. What little I've heard about noribogaine is that it isn't psychoactive, at least at doses where ibogaine would be. Yes, rat studies suggested that it should reduce withdrawal, but if it were very useful I would have expected Deborah Mash to jump on it long ago, since she owns the patent on it. The simplest way I know to make it is from ibogaine using refluxing hydrobromic acid, as described in the 1957 patent of Janot and Goutarel: http://puzzlepiece.org/ibogaine/literature/janot1957.pdf All it means if noribogaine reaches higher levels than ibogaine (at that point in time) is that ibogaine is metabolized faster than noribogaine, allowing noribogaine to build up temporarily. The theory that noribogaine accounts for the long-term effects of ibogaine assumes that the intensity of a drug's effects reflects the concentration of that drug in the blood. Based on what I've read, this assumption is often wrong in two ways. Tolerance causes the effects of many drugs to subside before they are eliminated, and long-term receptor binding or changes to nerve cells can cause a drug, like LSD for example, to continue having an effect even after it has been eliminated. Still, I would like to know if noribogaine is useful for anything, since it's legal after all. But I have more hope in the alkaloids which are similar to ibogaine, like ibogaline, ibogamine and tabernanthine.