Vinpocetine, Vincamine or Tabersonine and extracts of Voacanga Africana Seeds

In my renewed fascination with this substance under several names Vinpocetine, Vincamine or Tabersonine I have found that it was recently approved in the US but not by the FDA (a plus in my books), seems so promising.  I see this company has it on the cheap, I'm gonna have to get my feet wet then create a thread.  I mean being that it is an Iboga relative and Indole Alkaloid I see it is all so fitting.  Also I read it is fine to use with Noopept.  http://www.nutrasanus.com/vinpocetine-product.html

WOWZERS... http://www.vitasprings.com/vinpocetine-vincamine.html I think it's fairly new to the US market.  Some of those companies like Jarrow and Source Naturals I can attest are reputable. Excuse my obsession but I think I smell a pray prey.  Also can be made from Vinca Minor apparently which I don't know if it is an Iboga relative or not.

Lets give a go Ebokians! http://www.jarrow.com/product/178/Vinpocetine Sounds like Kambo for the brain.  ATP, universal currency of energy!!! I think I need to stop posting on this for now.  See what internet access does to me.  Once an addict always a magnet.

CAUTION SIDE Vinpocetine (ethyl apovincaminate) is a synthetic derivative of the alkaloid vincamine (from the periwinkle plant vinca minor) and has cerebral blood-flow enhancing (1) and voltage sensitive Na+ channel inhibiting properties (2), leading to it's use as a drug in Hungary, Germany and Russia in the treatment of cerebrovascular dementia and Alzheimer's disease (3). Vinpocetine has also become popular supplement in the United States, and is often marketed to otherwise healthy individuals for improvement of memory and self-treatment of age-associated memory decline. Though the specific mechanism of action of vinpocetine has not been fully elucidated, effects on the dopaminergic system have been scarcely investigated. Trejo F et al, 2001 reported on the "Characterization of vinpocetine effects on DA and DOPAC release in striatal isolated nerve endings" and found that vinpocetine increases DOPAC release, while simultaneously decreasing vesicular dopamine storage in a similar fashion as reserpine - an indole alkaloid with antipsychotic and antihypertensive properties with some structural similarities to vinpocetine (4). The authors report in the results section that "vinpocetine at increasing concentrations progressively decreases internal DA and increases DOPAC release" and "markedly inhibits DAT-mediated release of endogenous DA." (5) The effects of vinpocetine on DA and DOPAC levels are not believed to be related to the well-demonstrated inhibitory effects on voltage sensitive Na+ channels, as "vinpocetine increases DOPAC release independently of the state of presynaptic VSSC." A possible MAO-A enhancing mechanism is ruled out "as vinpocetine fails to modify the inhibition of DOPAC formation caused by clorgyline" - a potent inhibitor of MAO-A, "indicating that a reserpine-like mechanism is involved in the vinpocetine-induced increase in DOPAC formation." (6) If vinpocetine does indeed act in a "reserpine-like" fashion in striatal dopaminergic neurons, one could legitimately raise concern over the use of vinpocetine in otherwise healthy individuals for "cognitive enhancement," as side effects may manifest consistent with reserpine-like side effects, including depression and cognitive dysfunction (7, . Because resperine inhibits VMAT-2, the protein primarily responsible for the transportation of monoamines from the cytosol to synaptic vesicles, the amount of dopamine, norepinephrine and serotonin stored in neurons may be substantially decreased pre-synaptically by vinpocetine, leading to a downregulation of monoaminergic tone. In other words, while vinpocetine may be neuroprotective under some experimental and clinical conditions, it may also interfere with monoamine storage, and affect the way in which the brain responds to drugs acting through dopaminergic, adrenergic, or serotonergic pathways (e.g. amphetamine, modafinil, methylphenidate, cocaine, SSRIs, bupropion, etc). Serious consideration should be given before taking vinpocetine, as it is a highly active pharmacological agent that interacts and interferes with a wide array of brain systems and functions. *********** Vinpocetine preferentially antagonizes quisqualate/AMPA receptor responses: evidence from release and ligand binding studies. Kiss B, Cai NS, Erdö SL. Pharmacological Research Centre, Gedeon Richter Ltd., Budapest, Hungary. The effect of vinpocetine on excitatory amino acid receptors was examined in the rat brain by two different biochemical approaches. In release experiments with striatal slices, vinpocetine reduced the efflux of dopamine and acetylcholine evoked by glutamate, quisqualate and N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA), but not that evoked by kainate. In binding experiments with cortical membranes, vinpocetine reduced the binding of [3H]2-amino-3-3-hydroxy-s-methylisoxasole-4-yl-propionic acid ([3H]AMPA), a quisqualate partial agonist, in an incomplete manner, but failed to influence the binding of [3H]kainate and [3H]3-(2-carboxypyperazine-4-yl)-propyl-1-phosphonic acid ([3H]CPP), an NMDA agonist. These findings suggest that vinpocetine is a quisqualate/AMPA antagonist of some specificity and selectivity. *********************************************** Effects of several cerebroprotective drugs on NMDA channel function: evaluation using Xenopus oocytes and [3H]MK-801 binding. Kaneko S, Sugimura M, Inoue T, Satoh M. Department of Pharmacology, Faculty of Pharmaceutical Sciences, Kyoto University, Japan. The effects of several cerebroprotective and nootropic drugs on the function of excitatory amino acid (EAA) receptor subtypes expressed in Xenopus oocytes after injection of rodent brain poly(A)+ mRNA were investigated. The oocyte response to N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA) in the presence of glycine (Gly) was inhibited dose-dependently by bifemelane, indeloxazine, vinpocetine and vincamine while no effect was observed by idebenone, Ca hopantenate, aniracetam or piracetam. Bifemelane, indeloxazine and vinpocetine suppressed the maximum response of NMDA and Gly without affecting their EC50 values. Unlike Mg2+, they did not affect the current-voltage relationship of the NMDA response below 0 mV. On the non-NMDA-type responses of the injected oocytes to kainate (KA), alpha-amino-3-hydroxy-5-methyl-4-isoxazolepropionate (AMPA) and quisqualate (QA), no significant effects were observed by these drugs at 100 microM. On the binding of [3H](+)-5-methyl-10,11-dihydro-5H-dibenzo[a,d]cyclohepten-5,10-imi ne (MK-801) to brain membranes, the estimated IC50 values were 88 microM for bifemelane, 102 microM for indeloxazine, and 115 microM for vinpocetine. The dissociation rate of [3H]MK-801 was significantly slowed by Zn2+ and vinpocetine, but not affected by bifemelane or indeloxazine. The Kd value for [3H]MK-801 binding was increased by bifemelane and indeloxazine while Bmax was unchanged. These results suggest that the inhibition of NMDA channels by vinpocetine shows a similarity to the action of Zn2+ which closes the gate of the NMDA channel. In contrast, bifemelane and indeloxazine may affect the phencyclidine (PCP)-site in the open channels and inhibit NMDA function.

I can't decide if it is dangerous for me to have now?

short term occasional should be no problem

What do you make of this JBG, in the sense of having Aya works for months on end and taking little bits of Vinpocetine?  Seems to be choice. I really don't know how to make sense of this kind of scientifical talk it's like tongue twisters for the brain and by the end I end up more confused then before.

i'm lost in all of this i have yet to try it but i do have a reliable chinese supplier who gets me all of the nootropics high quality cheap (anyone can pm me for info)

Vinpocetine— is reported to have cerebral blood-flow enhancing and neuroprotective effects,and is used as a drug in Eastern Europe for the treatment of cerebrovascular disorders and age-related memory impairment. Also shown to inhibit voltage-sensitive Na+ channels—however, through a similar mechanism to reserpine, Vinpocetine may temporarily deplete the monoamines serotonin, dopamine and norepinephrine by inhibiting VMAT, thus preventing them from reaching the synapse. Vinpocetine may therefore induce or exacerbate depressive symptoms as an adverse effect. However, this effect tends to be reversible upon cessation of Vinpocetine administration, with full remission typically occurring within 3–4 weeks. Vinpocetine has been identified as a potent anti-inflammatory agent that might have a potential role in the treatment of Parkinson's disease and Alzheimer's disease

vinpo has quite the kick to it...... not natural feeling and smooth like noopept took vinpo with noopept and sulbutiamine - a definite hightened state of consciousness but ... Vinpocetine may also cause a temporary drop in blood pressure. Vinpocetine shouldn’t be taken by pregnant or nursing women. The safety of vinpocetine in people with liver or kidney damage isn't known. People with bleeding disorders, low blood pressure or seizure disorders shouldn't use vinpocetine. It also shouldn't be used two weeks before or after a surgical or dental procedure. There is one case report of agranulocytosis associated with the use of vinpocetine Possible Drug Interactions Vinpocetine shouldn’t be taken by people who are taking drugs or herbs that “thin” the blood (anticlotting or antiplatelet medications), such as aspirin, Plavix (clopidogrel), Ticlid (ticlopidine), (Trental) pentoxifylline, vitamin E, garlic or ginkgo. It should not be used with Coumadin (warfarin).

about 10 days on vinpo (with noopept - but you can to a degree isolate which is which in your experience)   after the first few days, it becomes much smoother and natural if noopept is like plugging the brain in vinpo seems to be like changing my voltage from 110 to 220 the results also seems to be building their is a definite increase in blood flow to the brain - lots vision is much more accute brain speed is much higher (there seem to be some scientific reports across the web re: vinpo's ability to help cure damage to the brain cause by drug abuse too

I was using Vinpo for a few months, a year or two ago. Apart from piracetam it was def the most intresting noot i used. I remember reading back then that it's chemically related to LSD. Pretty potent stuff, was only on 10mg per day, and apparently 5mg is enough for noticeable effects long term.

Vinpocetine: Revitalize Your Brain With Periwinkle Extract http://books.google.co.il/books?id=TuW06BRoSicC&pg=PA13&lpg=PA13&dq=vinpocetine+and+lsd&source=bl&ots=aMbHixU0eK&sig=jo6_VVRYKkJbK4QujRzFnlv3zr8&hl=iw&sa=X&ei=rAEzUfioAuSW0QXYmYG4BA&ved=0CG8Q6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=vinpocetine%20and%20lsd&f=false

Hey earnestdeer, I was trying loads of different Noots at the time during a 3 year period. I tried stacking them and taking them alone, to find which had the best effects. My conclusion was that i was best taking certain Noot's alone. I stopped a while ago as i just wanted a break from them, but Vinpo and Piracetam were def the stand out ones. (Altho melatonin is quite special aswell)

JohnnyB What dosages do you recommend with these? I am trying to deal with PAWS and am having trouble getting energized and motivated. I tried Noopept for a couple days but got a bad headache and quit. Wasn't sure I was taking the correct amount. It came with a small white spoon labeled as 50-90mg. Also some say to take choline at least with the Noopept. What do you think?

Found this comment in a review "The only reason I take choline is because when I take a nootropic without it I tend to get pressure headaches which disappear immediately when I add choline as part of my daily nootropic supplement stack." I'm thinking of trying the Noopept again in a more carefully measured dosage and with choline. Think also of ordering some sulbiatiamine to try. I'm working on nutrition and exercise but no noticeable effect on the PAWS. Have been considering Kambo, but it still scares the shit out of me. Suggestions?

cloris,  I also read magnesium supplementing can help with that headache people have reported from Noopept.  It has done me soooooo much good after my 3 week MDing protocol with RB.  Start a new thread if you can, tell us what's going on.  PAWS----this is such a broad based categorization.  Be more specific about your state.  For example, a little more detail could mean the difference between recommending Root Bark or Noopept ....maybe someone more experienced here with LAO's and Kambo post flood could chime in..... Cheers,  B